Alternative Energy Resources -- How About Starting With "The Colorado Green River Basins" 3 Trillion Barrels of Oil Deposits as "OIL SHALE"

Is it cost effective to retrieve it?  Are we better off right now buying oil from the Arabs, Mexico, Venezuela, Canada, etc. until such a time that the cost effectiveness at least equals what we're paying them?  Would we be better off pursuing alternative forms of energy, i.e. Hydrogen, Solar, Wind, Nuclear, etc..  Maybe our ingenuity and energies and dollars would be better spent in these arenas? 

Access the "Who Represents We the People" thread. I recently posted an article regarding this very subject. Access also:

www.petroprobe.com/articles/American_Oil_Sands.pdf

for more information.

Latest breaking news:

 

At when they begin to drill this oil, they would be well-advised to build American refineries to process it. Perhaps we can become a productive nation once again and put our citizens to work in a respectable job.

Over 95% of American citizens have never heard of "Oil Shale"; they never will unless Forums like this one can get the message out.  Great strides have been made in the last 2 years that enable Harvesting these deposits.  We will never receive Media attention unless a catastrophy happens to the world's oil supply.

 

ErnieGs 

The Evil Oil company Exxon/mobil has been extracting oil from tar sands in canada for years as well a developing the processes to remove shale oil. I would really like to see what all you critics of oil companies would do if they closed the doors tomorrow. I imagine you would be singing a different tune at that point in time.

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And how about this recent discovery?

http://www.saltwaterfuel.com/

Addendum:

For those who haven't heard of this discovery, and who have a relatively fast internet connection, this is an amazing scientific discovery.  It has NOTHING to do with oil shale.  This could overshadow any considerations on providing energy to populations worldwide in the weeks and months ahead.  Or it could turn into a dead end.  It is, however, fascinating, for those that can understand its implications.

There have been some replies to posts on another thread discounting this discovery.  For whomever reads this, if you have an understanding of catalysis ( http://www.dartmouth.edu/~genchem/0102/spring/6winn/catalysis.html ), you might have a different opinion on what you observe in the link to the videos.

One note of caution.  The link appears to have been put together by those not that good at presenting web pages.  View the videos one at a time in order to see them.  Otherwise the site doesn't seem to work properly.

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I have heard of it. It is called the Green River Formation.  Clinton put it off limits for development by executive order. Bush supposidly opened it up for exploration and experimental drilling, but to what oil companies?

I am afraid that this too, will end up controled by those that are pushing for a NWO or a NAU at least.  Keep your eyes and ears open.  This has been know about by the ellites for a long time.  The little guys are just finding out.

Why are they stalling with this?

Northerner:

My belief is they are stalling this for one simple fact: It gives them power. Power through their greed.

Once our country is in declared bankruptcy and the people have suffered through a good portion of this recession and despair is rampant, they will fortuitously announce the "discovery" of these oil sites. A major organization such as the CFR or perhaps the UN will come forward to "help" with the drilling and recovery of this oil - probably for a major portion of control over this "find" and our country. They will be looked at by those that don't know any better as "saviors" of our country while taking over much control.

This might sound like a duplicitous and fantastic scenario. But it is no more duplicitous than the CFR's and our "government's" push to the NAU and then the NWO, which has been in the works for decades. We are being chipped at from the inside - our rights as in the Constitution will be curtailed.

Once the deal is made, we will eagerly go to the slaughter. It will be as they wished. They will pat themselves on the back for another job well done, another country well on their way to be added to their list.

Americans have forgotten that THEY, are the government. We stand in awe of what we consider the intelligensia of America. We will roll over and play dead at the government's command. Frankly, I have heard more intelligence on this website than ever came out of Washington, DC. 

American freedom is going the way of the dinosaur unless the people become informed, choose a leader that believes in the rights of the people, and maintain their independence and sovereignty. 

We all know the government has been ignoring the majority and supporting the very small minority.  All posts to the Energy issue are great, however, we have to do something about it.

One of the major issues facing "Alternative Energy" is the time frame to roll it into production, which for the most part takes an average of 10 years.  If we allow the Green People and Conservationists to continue to block every idea we will never get off the stick.

SUGGESTION:  Temporarily discontinue the 45 different blends of gasoline now being produced by the Oil Companies.  The price of Gasoline will drop significantly.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05421.pdf

 Special Gasoline Blends Reduce missions and Improve Air Quality, but
Complicate Supply and Contribute to HIGHER Prices
Although there is no consensus on the total number of gasoline blends used n the United States, GAO found 11 distinct special blends in use during the ummer of 2004. Further, when different octane grades and other factors
are considered, there were at least 45 different kinds of gasoline produced in he United States during all of 2004.

ErnieGs 

 

Yes, Ernie, I heard the story a few years ago for the first time, and all I've heard since then is how we just can't get it out of the ground, we don't have the technology, we don't have the money, we don't have the time, we don't have the refineries, we don't have squat according to the so-called experts.  I refuse to believe that the country that can land a man on the moon and bring him back safely, that has developed miracles in the medical field, that has some fantastic technological minds, the richest country in the world cannot put it's collective genius together and come up with a way.  Not only to get it out of the ground in a relatively economical manner, but transport it to a new refinery/ies ready to spin into action and get this country on it's way to energy independence. 

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Please view americansolutions.com for issues and suggested solutions for every major issue we are facing.  You can enter a problem and how you would correct it; your solution will be used and placed into a matrix.

This analogy was used by Newt Gingrich on YouTube:  We were not prepared for WW II, however, FDR spoke to the nation and explained our needs.  Before we entered the war, he requested 50,000 planes and hundres to thousands of ships.  In the four years after the United States entered the war; we defeated Italy, Germany and Imperial Japan in just 4 years.   NOW, it takes us 23 years to build a much needed runway at Atlanta's airport.

 

ErnieGs 

I'm not excusing it, but there are reasons things take longer these days.  In some cases they don't take longer.  One is the sense of urgency.  JFK didn't say we would get a man to the moon an back in 1 year.  The only urgency was "to beat the USSR" and few believed they would land a man on the moon in a few years.  It took almost 10 years.  There were planned steps along the way.

Similarly, we can't just change the national transportation system and energy production/consumption infrastructure overnight.  There were a lot of engineers and scientists working full time to get 3 men to the moon and 2 on the surface.  With energy, we are talking about a distributed architecture that will require much engineering and construction in many locations.  When companies are making profits today, large or small, they are going to want to know the return on investments is going to make them better off.  Not only is the cost to change the existing system high, but there is risk in new technology and in adoption of new technology by the masses.  Add to that the fact that most companies are facing challenges from environmental legislation and enforcement that means they have to spend some of their engineering and capital funds just to keep the current assets productive.  It may just be possible that investing in new technology is simply unattractive to large companies like the oil companies.  This is what the role of entrepreneur is, to bring new alternatives to market.  If you are waiting for large car companies to bring new transportation to the market or large oil companies to bring new energy to the market or large anything to make major changes, don't hold your breath while waiting.

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There is not enough refining capacity and it takes from 3 to 4 years to bring a refinery on line from design to oil in.

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Feed, we've been importing Arab oil for decades.  We've known about this oil shale in our own country for even longer and we've done nothing.   NOTHING!!

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FeedFwd said:

I'm not excusing it, but there are reasons things take longer these days.  In some cases they don't take longer.  One is the sense of urgency.  JFK didn't say we would get a man to the moon an back in 1 year.  The only urgency was "to beat the USSR" and few believed they would land a man on the moon in a few years.  It took almost 10 years.  There were planned steps along the way.

Similarly, we can't just change the national transportation system and energy production/consumption infrastructure overnight.  There were a lot of engineers and scientists working full time to get 3 men to the moon and 2 on the surface.  With energy, we are talking about a distributed architecture that will require much engineering and construction in many locations.  When companies are making profits today, large or small, they are going to want to know the return on investments is going to make them better off.  Not only is the cost to change the existing system high, but there is risk in new technology and in adoption of new technology by the masses.  Add to that the fact that most companies are facing challenges from environmental legislation and enforcement that means they have to spend some of their engineering and capital funds just to keep the current assets productive.  It may just be possible that investing in new technology is simply unattractive to large companies like the oil companies.  This is what the role of entrepreneur is, to bring new alternatives to market.  If you are waiting for large car companies to bring new transportation to the market or large oil companies to bring new energy to the market or large anything to make major changes, don't hold your breath while waiting.

 

Good post Feedfwd.,  I may be wrong, but this implicates that these steps are being put into motion.  As you are well aware too, cost effectiveness plays a big if not the major role in how companies take action.  "Let's mosie on down and get the whole (impatient) herd."

Are we on the same page?  Eliminating the current 45 blends of gasoline could be accomplished almost over night, no changes to our refineries is needed.  Congress could simply pass a temporary law to reduce the number of blends in the name of a "National Crisis" or something like that.

 

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05421.pdf

 

ErnieGs 

Patsy,

In spite of the cost, it has been historically and may still be much less expensive and more profitable to find and produce (or simply import) and refine petroleum than to produce and refine shale oil.  Just because it is there and we've known about it, doesn't mean it makes business sense.

ErnieGs,

You are right to a point.  The various blends require the refiners to produce various blend stocks from the crude.  Some of the blends require the refineries to run their units at higher severities, which reduce yields and some don't.  If you picked the wrong blends as standard, you could end up with less gasoline.  As for th cost, the bigger problem for most refiners isn't making the various blends, but making the seasonal transition for seasonal blends or the transition from blend to blend depending on the geographic region of the consumer.  For instance, a Midwest blender may supply gasoline to St Louis, Chicago, and Indianapolis and all may have different requirements.  And in some cases, the refiners see a PR opportunity and are making custom boutique "green" blends on their own, because they can charge more and ultimately earn more profit.  It's sort of like buying Starbucks coffee or organic carrots for some consumers and they will pay a premium for "green" fuels.  Anyway, it is a national pain in the @$$, but I'm not sure it rises yet to the level of "national crisis" or that it would be significantly resolved by reducing the number of blends.  I don't think any refiner is making 45 blends.  Many if not most make 4, 2 in the winter and 2 in the summer and some may make as many as 15 or 20, but most are probably making less than 10.

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My point in this discussion thread is only to discuss IDEAS not solutions.  I threw out the Multiple Blends of Gasoline our refineries produce simply to point out one of many Immediate Solutions to our current Energy Crisis.  FeedFwd it is a CRISIS when all monies moving to the Middle East and Russia provide Billions of Dollars to Al Quieda and Russia's military.  (Russia's new SU-30 Fighter Jet, is considered the finest Fighter Jet in the World - Analysts worry that these planes will be sold to China. )

We must begin NOW to build Nuclear Power Plants, producing Oil from Coal with a starting date of 2010.  Other alternative fuels can be worked out.  Develope Solutions for Using or stopping or modifying the amount of Methane Gas coming from Cows.

FeedFwd and Patsy:  California alone requires over 20 different blends of gasoline.

Types of Motor Fuel Consumed in California:

http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/types_of_gasoline.html

According to the following report, a huge oil discover has been made right here in the USA.  This took place in 1953 and is known as the Bakken Formation.  This field hadn't been tapped until recently because of advances in drilling technology.  The following link to Wikipedia describes this field in detail:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakken_Formation

This field, according to the above, dwarfs fields in the Middle East.

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