High fuel costs are crippling our economy

I find it amazing that there is little discussion in all of Fire Society about the high price of fuel. Diesel is $4+ per gallon. Gasoline $3.30+...in north Texas.

A very large amount of freight trasportation is fueled by diesel. This is adding cost to what we retail purchase...inflation... I'm sure it is of modest consequence, but propane prices were the highest in history this '07/08 winter. I deliver propane(yup, just a truck driver) to mostly residential customers in north Texas and I have seen a number of customers quit using it because it is so high. One of my elderly customers, just today, told me that she will stop using propane, because she can't afford it. She must devote more money to her prescriptions.

The high cost of fuel is a burden. It is increasing prices on products for shipping. There are other related problems that cause a snowball effect...the diminshing value of the dollar in the global economy, the conversion of arable land to fuel production(ethanol and biodiesel), higher fuel and fertilizer prices(largely petroleum based)...begetting higher priced agriculture produce, and so on.

 It's becoming an economic nightmare. And that's not mentioning taxes, budget deficits, economic recession(maybe), Social Security, health care, mortgage lending crisis(?), War on Terror(Islamic terrorists war on US!), Homeland Security, Free Trade(not really free), Hurricane Katrina, wildfires, floods, and much more...what a world, what a world!!!

For our economic and national security, we really need to be producing our domestic fuel needs. It is something we can do. It will bring economic stability and stop shipping so much of our money outside of our borders.

We need to temporarily set aside the Clean Air Act and other environmental laws that are reducing domestic oil exploration and fuel refining, and get our economic feet back under this economy. We also need to provide tax credits to those researching alternative fuel and energy technologies.

These strategies will make a difference.

Later, Dennis

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High fuel costs are a symptom of other problems.  The biggest problem is probably inflation, the same thing driving up the cost of gold.  Or the biggest problem may be idiotic government intervention that tries to placate enviro-whiners worried about pollution, global warming, and wilderness flora and fauna.  Interestingly, energy follows the law of supply and demand, like everything else.  The world is awash in oil right now, but increased demand from China and other places and restrictions on exploration, production, and refining do play in the cost.  As far as fuels, requirements for oxygenates like MTBE (oops, scratch that, not environmentally friendly) and ethanol and requirements to reduce sulfur in fuels, especially diesel, have further increased the costs of the end product that goes in your tank.  Since enviro-fuels displace crops grown for food, they have the side-effect of raising food prices, not even accounting for the added transportation costs.

In spite of that, the market will be somewhat self-regulating.  Higher prices tell consumers they better conserve or they are going to have to give up something else.  It also tells producers and prospective producers of current fuels and alternatives that there is unmet demand and profits to be made increasing production.  That should motivate additional production.  While it won't happen overnight, I feel more comfrotable letting the market figure out supply and demand than letting the idiots that currently occupy the Senate do it for/to us.

There have been some threads that discussed this, mostly under the umbrella of the global warming hoax, but I am not sure if there has been a thread dedicated to it before.

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There is so much discussion about the cost of oil and no one touches on the real reason greed .In the past 40 t0 50 years there have been news articals about alternative fuels that some one had developed .The news coverage would carry stories for afew days or weeks and then gone .What did happen to these alternate fuels . Well every one of them were a threat to the oil industry so thy bought the the ideas from the inventors and shelved them.Just how many have been locked away . Many of these would help the enviorment and lower the cost to the user .This would not do for the greedy hide them and if you own them you control the cost making everyone dependent on oil .I think it is time for the US Government to step in and look at these alternatives and release the information to the public .That is when the public will see just how greedy the oil industry is.Therwe has been articals stating that the first quarter of 2008 the oil companies were showing 40 plus billion in profits if this is not stealing what is .Were is the law to protect the consumer .

ACE123 said: There is so much discussion about the cost of oil and no one touches on the real reason greed .In the past 40 t0 50 years there have been news articals about alternative fuels that some one had developed .The news coverage would carry stories for afew days or weeks and then gone .What did happen to these alternate fuels . Well every one of them were a threat to the oil industry so thy bought the the ideas from the inventors and shelved them.Just how many have been locked away . Many of these would help the enviorment and lower the cost to the user .This would not do for the greedy hide them and if you own them you control the cost making everyone dependent on oil .I think it is time for the US Government to step in and look at these alternatives and release the information to the public .That is when the public will see just how greedy the oil industry is.Therwe has been articals stating that the first quarter of 2008 the oil companies were showing 40 plus billion in profits if this is not stealing what is .Were is the law to protect the consumer .

If a major oil company had any of these inventions it would have been patented and put on the market immediately. Just how much money do you think they would make from that application.

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I don't believe that oil companies have bought up patents to anything and hidden them.  These products just turned out not to be feasible.

Also, if you do believe that to be true, the government certainly has no incentive  to release any of that info to the public.  For every cent the oil companies get in profits, the government gets 2 cents. 

The oil industry is a boom and bust industry.  They're making pretty good money now but still lag behind pharmaceuticals, banks, financial services, software companies, telecom and food and beverage industries.

Besides, worldwide demand for oil is already starting to go down due to high prices.  Pretty soon the prices will start dropping. 

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I have seen two of these in action one when I was in sahool and another shown on TV both worked both were purchased by oil companies.Why wouild they shelf them because they wolld not make the same profit as the would from oil the cost for these new fuels was only a small percentage of oil.The reason the bought them was they would lose money if it went on the market.

DennisD said: I find it amazing that there is little discussion in all of Fire Society about the high price of fuel. Diesel is $4+ per gallon. Gasoline $3.30+...in north Texas. A very large amount of freight trasportation is fueled by diesel. This is adding cost to what we retail purchase...inflation... I'm sure it is of modest consequence, but propane prices were the highest in history this '07/08 winter. I deliver propane(yup, just a truck driver) to mostly residential customers in north Texas and I have seen a number of customers quit using it because it is so high. One of my elderly customers, just today, told me that she will stop using propane, because she can't afford it. She must devote more money to her prescriptions. The high cost of fuel is a burden. It is increasing prices on products for shipping. There are other related problems that cause a snowball effect...the diminshing value of the dollar in the global economy, the conversion of arable land to fuel production(ethanol and biodiesel), higher fuel and fertilizer prices(largely petroleum based)...begetting higher priced agriculture produce, and so on. It's becoming an economic nightmare. And that's not mentioning taxes, budget deficits, economic recession(maybe), Social Security, health care, mortgage lending crisis(?), War on Terror(Islamic terrorists war on US!), Homeland Security, Free Trade(not really free), Hurricane Katrina, wildfires, floods, and much more...what a world, what a world!!! For our economic and national security, we really need to be producing our domestic fuel needs. It is something we can do. It will bring economic stability and stop shipping so much of our money outside of our borders. We need to temporarily set aside the Clean Air Act and other environmental laws that are reducing domestic oil exploration and fuel refining, and get our economic feet back under this economy. We also need to provide tax credits to those researching alternative fuel and energy technologies. These strategies will make a difference. Later, Dennis

 

I also find it amazing that people are buying new cars based on the incentive they can get gas @ $2.99 a gallon (like that's a great thing). 

Maybe they will make an ethanol that you buy and put have in your tank and take the other half home for groceries.

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ACE123 said: I have seen two of these in action one when I was in sahool and another shown on TV both worked both were purchased by oil companies.Why wouild they shelf them because they wolld not make the same profit as the would from oil the cost for these new fuels was only a small percentage of oil.The reason the bought them was they would lose money if it went on the market.

 

You are probably right.  They wouldn't make as much profit from them.  And if the oil companies couldn't make a profit from them, then likely neither could anybody else.  If the profit was marginal, then the entry of the alternative fuel into the market could put pressure on fuel prices to the point that... the alternative becomes no longer profitable.  Nobody but governments (with unlimited access to tax revenue) and charities do things that are not profitable, if not now, at least in the foreseeable future.  To do otherwise would be irrational!

Do you see an over abundance of fossil fuels on the market?  Oil companies are selling everything they can make and would sell more if they had it!  If they also have alternative fuels that they could sell profitably, they would do that, too.  There is so much demand for energy, that an oil company would be foolish and irrational to buy an alternative energy technology simply to keep it off of the market.  More likely it would be to keep it from another oil company when and if it becomes commercially viable.  Even more likely, there may have been something in the technology that they could use immediately that is worth the price of the technology even without consideration of producing an alternative energy product.

A lot of technology appears attractive at first blush.  It may be very attractive technically.  It is another story when you try to commercialize technology.  You have to put marketing and distribution and infrastructure in place.  It is sort of like owning the only fax machine.  It may be cool and technically attractive, but how are you going to use it if nobody else is on the other end?

It is good to be suspicious of the actions and motives of large corporations like oil companies.  But they are solely interested in creating wealth for their owners... or they are supposed to be.  If you think they are doing agood job of it, you should buy some stock.  It is openly traded for the major oil companies not owned by a foreign government.

Just to get an idea of what it takes... there is an oil company planning a grass roots refinery in North America.  It will be the first grass roots refinery in over 30 years in North America.  Design is already underway.  I'm sure they aren't trying to delay start-up.  Guess when it is scheduled to start operation.  2015.

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ace...there are a lot of scams out there, some of them verry convincing.

one which keeps comming up every so often has been around long enough to count Henry Ford as one of it's victums. it goes like this....

 

    Mirical compound discovered...you can run your car on WATER!!!!

  a demonstration will show one cup of this "mirical" being mixed with a gallon of water, and poured into a gas tank.

assorted "experts" will verify that it is water, the tank is empty, and there are no hidden fuel lines.

the engin is then started and run for a period of time, possably even powering a car or generator.

then you are asked to invest in further research and market devolopment.

so what is this "mirical"??  acetone, aka fingernail polish remover.  and it really will work....for about 100 miles or so, then your valves will be toasted and holes will appear in your piston heads.

if anyone can bring me a duplicate of that carb that gets 100+ mpg in a full sized sedan, i will give him a million dollars, as long as there is no patend on it.(i'm not worried tho, it's another urban ledgend...there is not enough energy in 1 gallon of gas to move 2300 lbs 100 miles, and there is no math or physics that can change that)

That urban legend (the unbelievable carburetor) has been around long enough that any previous patent should have expired by now.

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Listen to this.  It's rather lengthy, but if you have other things to do crank up the sound and listen. 

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...

Americans are ANGRY, almost to the point of doing something about our CRISIS.  If 85% read the local papers or watch ABC, CBS or NBC they think the way the Socialistic Left tells them; the 15% (I have no idea what the real percentages are) of us who can access the internet daily for 8 - 10 hours are the people in the know so to speak.

The American majority do not know how to complain.  We do need a method of getting instructions "How to contact the White House and Congress" delivered to them.  DOES ANYBODY know how to get this information out?

As a Web veteran of sorts, we know that visitors take only seconds to determine if the material is worthy of their time, if not they go elsewhere...........

 

ErnieGs

ErnieGs said:

Americans are ANGRY, almost to the point of doing something about our CRISIS. If 85% read the local papers or watch ABC, CBS or NBC they think the way the Socialistic Left tells them; the 15% (I have no idea what the real percentages are) of us who can access the internet daily for 8 - 10 hours are the people in the know so to speak.

The American majority do not know how to complain. We do need a method of getting instructions "How to contact the White House and Congress" delivered to them. DOES ANYBODY know how to get this information out?

As a Web veteran of sorts, we know that visitors take only seconds to determine if the material is worthy of their time, if not they go elsewhere...........

 

ErnieGs

 

Ernie, No offense, but if you "have no idea what the real percentages are," then why make them up? This is exactly what we do not want in a leader. So, if we are going to do it then why not them? Listen to this video. There are some startling facts within.By the way, it's this type information that we need to pass on to anyone we know that will listen and make sure they pass it on too.

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...

Gerald47 said:

ErnieGs said:

Americans are ANGRY, almost to the point of doing something about our CRISIS. If 85% read the local papers or watch ABC, CBS or NBC they think the way the Socialistic Left tells them; the 15% (I have no idea what the real percentages are) of us who can access the internet daily for 8 - 10 hours are the people in the know so to speak.

The American majority do not know how to complain. We do need a method of getting instructions "How to contact the White House and Congress" delivered to them. DOES ANYBODY know how to get this information out?

As a Web veteran of sorts, we know that visitors take only seconds to determine if the material is worthy of their time, if not they go elsewhere...........

ErnieGs

Ernie, No offense, but if you "have no idea what the real percentages are," then why make them up? This is exactly what we do not want in a leader. So, if we are going to do it then why not them? Listen to this video. There are some startling facts within.By the way, it's this type information that we need to pass on to anyone we know that will listen and make sure they pass it on too.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...

 

NO OFFENSE TAKEN.................... Fact is we DO NOT KNOW how many Americans know the truth as we believe it!  My point is so important that we MUST develop a way to determine what the percentage actually is!

How many Illegals are actually here - 12 million - 20 million - 50 million, What percentage of Mexicans actually drop out of High School - 20% - 40% - 60% - 80%, What percentage of ILLEGAL ALIENS will commit crimes (If we knew the true number of drop outs - we can arrive at an approximate percentage), Will Drilling here actually only reduce gasoline prices by .02 cents, What is our actual unemployment rate, Are we in a Recession or are we in an Inflationary Spiral, How many barrels of Oil are left in Saudi Arabia, How long will it take to begin harvesting Oil if Congress approves Costal Drilling - 1 year, 5 years, 10 years,  Is Cap and Trade a good thing or a bad thing, Is Climate change/Global Warming being caused by man, What percentage of the Border Fence is complete 1% - 10% - 51%, How many thousands of Felons come into this country every year, 5,000, 20,000, 70,000, How many Terrorists are in this country - 5,000 - 10,000, 50,000, What percentage of Americans support NO AMNESTY, 40%, 60%, 90%, How many South American Gang Members are in the U.S., 200,000, 1,000,000, 5,000,000, 10,000,000??

WE HAVE NO CLUE that any number is correct.  At least I stated MY guesstimate, and my SWAGS are always near the mark.

Gerald47, Please let me know what percentage of Americans are in the know?

 

ErnieGs

 

 

Wow, Ernie -- those are staggering questions!  Thanks for those thoughts!

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Hello dfreyou -- I had to delete your post advertising your products for the oil industry.

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A couple important items to note...

1. Oil is NOT a fossil fuel. It is generated continuously deep within the Earth. A renewable resource.

2. The Rocky Mountains are a massive oil generating system which is why there is so much oil all the way from the top of Alaska right down to Mexico.

3. Montana has a larger oil deposit of light sweet crude, the World's very finest, than all of Saudi Arabia. It can be pumped for about $16.00 per barrel.

4. Bill Clinton and ilk like him have stopped our land drilling efforts cold. Part of the plan to win this election.

5. About 80% of our oil comes from Canada. They get it out of the ground for about $16.00 per barrel. It arrives via 4 major pipelines through Minnesota that end in Chicago.

6. The rest of our oil comes from Mexico. Only trickles come from elsewhere.

7. NAFTA requires Canada to sell its oil to us. They would rather sell it to China who will pay them much more. The catch is that we will pay Canada going World market rate.

8. Since China, India, and other economies are growing like mad market forces are driving up the price of crude.

9. Montana is one of only a couple States that joined the Union via a contract that is dissolvable. There is action right now to do this. They will then be able to drill and sell us oil at ridiculous prices.

Liberals in congress talking about RAISING gas taxes!!!!!  From Center for Individual Freedom.....

http://www.cfiflistmanager.org/drilli...

 

Hmmm, Nancy, your link has this...

According to legend, Marie Antoinette said; "Let them eat cake" when she heard the starving French people had no bread and the French people executed her for her callousness.

Should we take their advice?