the "laws"

Lets face it, unless you are an American Indian, our families came here from somewhere else. Difference between then and today? Back when, it was  a big deal, an HONOR to be an American. People came here, kissed the ground, took citizenship tests and BECAME Americans. Today? They are sneaking in, flying the flag from the country they have ESCAPED from and expecting us to subsudize them, speak their native language. Hell, 90% of AMERICAN signs, government forms are now written in spanish. NO ONE helped the Italians, Germans, or Pols read or fill out forms. We didnt translate for them FREE of charge! I happen to be an American citizen born on foreign soil, my father was stationed in Germany when I was born. I had to pay to have my birth certificate translated to get a drivers license! The Germans spell July, Juli so when the troopers were still running the DMV, there was no playing around and I was refused until I had it translated! I don't want to deny anyone or culture access to the freedoms we enjoy here BUT, DO IT LEGALLY just as those before you were FORCED to do. IF you want to live in our country, speak to us in English. Go to work not the welfare, food stamp, medicade offices. You want the rights the rest of us enjoy, obey the laws the rest of us obey OR pay the price. Prison, NOT a free ticket home! This is a free country, everyone is welcome. DO IT the LEGAL way or get the hell out! 

And what are your thoughts on those that have broken the laws here by hiring them?  Is that just a minor detail?

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Minor detail?If you were looking for an argument, you wont find one here! I am all for fines, sanctions, jail for those who knowingly hire illegals. They are not only lining their own pockets by paying them below minimum wage, they are breaking local, state and federal law. They should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Unfortunatly, most of these people are fined, slapped on the wrist or warned. No 'real' punishment or reason not to hire these folks!

QueenAM1-I will give you a better welcoming,Totally understand everything you said.Another california refugee.

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Employers, employers

Since I first came to this site you have stressed this issue about the employers. You were spot on and still are, The US Chamber of Commerce has come out and flatly stated that they NEED this illegal labor. They DO NOT- they need to pay more money for the jobs they have,. They NEED to be satisfied with a decent profit and they NEED to remind themselves that eventually it will be their turn. They will no longer own the businesses they now own and they will wind up working for slave wages for those whom they take advantage of now.

Those selfish employers NEED NOT come crying on my shoulder when that day comes. I will care  for them as much then, as they care for me and my fellow Americans now.

QueenAM1 said: ...They should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Unfortunatly, most of these people are fined, slapped on the wrist or warned. No 'real' punishment or reason not to hire these folks!

Do you think the reason for this is because, as a group, they pay huge sums of money to politicians in both parties?

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ABSOLUTLY! This is part of the 'core' problem here! All these politicians making huge amounts of money off the backs of the American working class! What is it they say? The rich keep getting richer and the poor, poorer? Well, the middle class no longer exists!

QueenAM1,  willkommen.

EE, you have been asking the same question in other threads.  May I ask you this:

does anyone really think that, if the illegals have sacked their amnesty, they will continue working for the same low wages and will be doing the jobs that 'Americans' wont do?

Those who are getting rich now will have theirs pretty soon, because once Amnesty is passed, the NAU will come into effect, and then: no more illegals to be found.  My guess is that we also will have to brush up on our Spanish, followed by Arabic of course. 

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elaina said:

QueenAM1,  willkommen.

EE, you have been asking the same question in other threads.  May I ask you this:

does anyone really think that, if the illegals have sacked their amnesty, they will continue working for the same low wages and will be doing the jobs that 'Americans' wont do?

Those who are getting rich now will have theirs pretty soon, because once Amnesty is passed, the NAU will come into effect, and then: no more illegals to be found.  My guess is that we also will have to brush up on our Spanish, followed by Arabic of course. 

Elaina,

Do you really think that this is about what the illegals want?  Isn't it really about what criminal illegal alien employers want?  If amnesty takes place, aren't businesses going to continue favoring those who come here illegally, even after amnesty, because they can pay them less?

Don't you think that many of these criminal enterprises, and their handmaidens, the US Government, are going to continue to look the other way?  Doesn't what we've learned in our recent history point to this happening?  Doesn't the dirty money that passes through the grimy hands of politicians now continue flowing AFTER any amnesty via the same suspects?

How long do you think it's going to take people to see the truth of what is happening?  How long do you think it will take before people say, "You know.  It's not really the illegal aliens that are the true source of the problem.  It is the people that employ them."

Or do you think people will continue to flail around helplessly as the problem grows without ever letting it be known on any massive scale that they want businesses to  be prosecuted to the full extent of EXISTING law?

How long, Elaina?  How long?

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Illegal, meaning NOT legal, AGAINST the law! Why is this 'group' being deemed in an almost seperate catagory? Murder, illegal. Rape, illegal. Theft, illegal. ALL of these offences land people in jail everyday. As I stated in my very first post, for many, many years people have come from all over the world to our shores looking for a better life. They went thru LEGAL channels and were welcomed. They have worked hard and made a good life for themselves and their familys. ASSIMILATION is what is lacking today. When people came years ago, they WANTED to be a part of this great country, wanted to be able to call themselves Americans. Unfortunatly today as I said , the new generation coming here want to bring their country with them and in the same breath, want all the handouts they have heard so much about! Its not about making a better life for themselves anymore. Its not about escaping persecution, famine, or the such. The poor are looking for handouts, the sick are looking for free medical care, the criminals are looking for new and better prey. This country has come to the point that we bend over backwards so not to offend anyone that we are losing what rights we have as LEGAL, hardworking, TAX PAYING citizens! I accompanied a friend whos husband was laid off a month ago to the food stamp office. We were the ONLY Americans in a room of about 150 people! Have you been to an emergancy room lately? Usually at least a 3 hour wait while nurses and hospital staff try to translate for 95% of the people in the room! All there more than likely because they have no insurance and cannot visit a Dr.'s office. Is it any wonder why our health insurance is as expensive as it is? This has become a national disaster and our government has allowed it to continue.       

QueenAM1 said: Illegal, meaning NOT legal, AGAINST the law! Why is this 'group' being deemed in an almost seperate catagory? Murder, illegal. Rape, illegal. Theft, illegal. ALL of these offences land people in jail everyday. As I stated in my very first post, for many, many years people have come from all over the world to our shores looking for a better life. They went thru LEGAL channels and were welcomed. ...      

But isn't the difference between then and now that the illegal newcomers are far more welcome than those who come here legally, and especially in the job market?  Doesn't this account for the large number of problems you allude to, as far as unassimilated immigrants are concerned?

If we continue to target the wrong enemy, aren't we going to ultimately lose the argument?

---

Employers, Employers... said:

elaina said:

QueenAM1,  willkommen.

EE, you have been asking the same question in other threads.  May I ask you this:

does anyone really think that, if the illegals have sacked their amnesty, they will continue working for the same low wages and will be doing the jobs that 'Americans' wont do?

Those who are getting rich now will have theirs pretty soon, because once Amnesty is passed, the NAU will come into effect, and then: no more illegals to be found.  My guess is that we also will have to brush up on our Spanish, followed by Arabic of course. 

Elaina,

Do you really think that this is about what the illegals want?  Isn't it really about what criminal illegal alien employers want?  If amnesty takes place, aren't businesses going to continue favoring those who come here illegally, even after amnesty, because they can pay them less?

Don't you think that many of these criminal enterprises, and their handmaidens, the US Government, are going to continue to look the other way?  Doesn't what we've learned in our recent history point to this happening?  Doesn't the dirty money that passes through the grimy hands of politicians now continue flowing AFTER any amnesty via the same suspects?

How long do you think it's going to take people to see the truth of what is happening?  How long do you think it will take before people say, "You know.  It's not really the illegal aliens that are the true source of the problem.  It is the people that employ them."

Or do you think people will continue to flail around helplessly as the problem grows without ever letting it be known on any massive scale that they want businesses to  be prosecuted to the full extent of EXISTING law?

How long, Elaina?  How long?

 

EE, QueenAM1, don't misunderstand what I am saying. I am just going one step further.  After amnesty, the current illegals, now legal don't work the lesser jobs anymore.  And given the open border policies of our 3 frontrunners for the Presidency I am questioning a new supply of illegals.  Open borders=no more illegals.  Just a swarm of individuals from every society and every Country.  Sad thought, isn't is?

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I understand what you are saying Elaina, I just don't see it happening the way you do. Those that I am talking about are the ones that will never assimilate ( this has become a vast number ) They will never attempt to learn our laws, langauge, customs. They come here with no intention of doing so. WE ( in their opinion ) are supposed to bend to fit their needs. When an illegal is arrested, he IS afforded EVERY right ( and then some ) that  Americans have fought and died to keep. Is this justice? Is this fair? When one of them steals a car and a police officer pulls them over, all of a sudden it was racial profiling! Never mind they were guilty, our courts are so back logged with such cases that the jails are over flowing. Who do you think is paying for their room and board? Who do you think is paying for the new bulidings that are needed to house them? Our taxes are sky rocketing. Your average American citizen has to wait months for a gun permit. Has to go thru paperwork, backround and criminal checks.  YET, how many stories have you read in the news lately about illegals being arrested with dozens of guns in their homes? Unfortunatly, this group has really over shadowed the ones that are here for honest reasons, living honest lives. You are talking about losing jobs to them. If they cannot speak English, have no education. They are going to be doing the jobs not even our teenagers want. I am not afraid of losing my job to them, I am afraid of losing a whole lot more!   

Illegal Aliens Cause Massive
Cuts For US Seniors
ALL Illegals Must Be Rounded Up And Deported - NOW
12-4-7


I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are
read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I have included
the URL's for verification of the following facts:
1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year.
http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food
stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education
for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

5. $17 Billio n dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born
children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare and Social
Services by the American taxpayers.
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the
illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's
two-and-a-half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their
children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that
crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from
Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and
marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.
Homeland Security Report. http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of mass
deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between
$41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period."
http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their
countrie s of origin. http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes
Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States".
http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml


Total cost is a whooping... $338.3 BILLION A YEAR!!!
If this doesn't bother you then just delete the message, but on the other hand,
if it does raise the hair on the back of your neck, then forward it.
Snopes is provided for doubters:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/bankofamerica.asp
Social Security Change For 2008
The United States Senate voted to extend Social Security Benefits to Illegal
Aliens beginning in 2008.
Now, the following are the senators who voted to give illegal aliens Social
Security benefits. They are grouped by home state. If a state i s not listed,
there was no voting representative.
Alaska: Stevens (R)
Arizona : McCain (R)
Arkansas : Lincoln (D) Pryor (D)
California : Boxer (D) Feinstein (D)
Colorado : Salazar (D)
Connecticut : Dodd (D) Lieberman (D)
Delaware : Biden (D) Carper (D)
Florida : Martinez (R)
Hawaii : Akaka (D) Inouye (D)
Illinois : Durbin (D) Obama (D)
Indiana : Bayh (D) Lugar (R)
Iowa : Harkin (D)
Kansas : Brownback (R)
Louisiana : Landrieu (D)
Maryland : Mikulski (D) Sarbanes (D)
Massachusetts : Kennedy (D) Kerry (D)
Montana : Baucus (D)
Nebraska : Hagel (R)
Nevada : Reid (D)
New Jersey : Lautenberg (D) Menendez (D) New Mexico : Bingaman (D) New York :
Clinton (D) Schumer (D) North Dakota : Dorgan (D) Ohio : DeWine
(R) Voinovich(R) Oregon : Wyden (D) Pennsylvania : Specter (R) Rhode Island :
Chafee (R) Reed (D) South Carolina : Graham (R) South Dakota :
Johnson (D) Vermont : Jeffords (I) Leahy (D) Washington : Cantwell (D) Murray
(D) West Virginia : Rockefeller (D), by Not Voting Wisconsin :
Feingold (D) Kohl (D) SEND THIS TO ALL YOU KNOW. THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF THE
UNITED STATES NEEDS TO KNOW THIS INFORMATION, UNLESS THEY DON'T MIND SHARING
THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY WITH FOREIGN WORKERS who didn't pay in a dime.
LET US SHOW OUR LEADERS IN WASHINGTON "PEOPLE POWER" AND THE POWER OF THE
INTERNET. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU ARE REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT OR INDEPENDENT!
KEEP IT GOING!!!!
SOCIAL SECURITY:
(This is worth reading. It is short and to the point.) Perhaps we are asking the
wrong questions during election years. Our Senators and Congresswomen do not pay
into Social Security and, of course, they do not collect from it.
You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of their rare
elevation in society. They felt they should have a special plan for themselves
So, many years ago they voted in their own benefit plan.
In more recent years, no congressperson has felt the need to change it.
After all, it is a great plan.
For all practical purposes their plan works like this:
When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die.
Except it may increase from time to time for cost of living adjustments..
For example, Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to
draw $7,800,000.00 (that's Seven Million, Eight-Hundred Thousand Dollars), with
their wives drawing $275,000.00 during the last years of their lives.
This is calculated on an average life span for each of those two Dignitaries.
Younger Dignitaries who retire at an early age, will receive much more during
the rest of their lives.
Their cost for this excellent plan is $0.00. NADA... ZILCH... ZERO!!!
This little perk they voted for themselves is free to them. You and I pick up
the tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan come directly
from the General Funds; "OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK "!
From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay (or have
paid) into, every payday until we retire (which amount is matched by our
employer). We can expect to get an average of $1,000 per month after retirement.
Or, in other words, we would have to collect our average of $1,000 monthly
benefits for 68 years and one (1) month to equal Senator Bill Bradley's
benefits!
Social Security could be very good if only one small change were made.
That change would be to: Jerk the Golden Fleece Retirement Plan from under the
Senators and Congressmen. Put them into the Social Security plan with the rest
of us Then sit back... And see how fast they would fix it.
If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of awareness will be planted and
maybe good changes will evolve.