If GunVoters don't get involved now, they will have little reason to get involved later.

Written by Jeff Knox, on 12-06-2007 16:37 The Knox Report From the Firearms Coalition Candidates on Rights   By Jeff Knox                         (December 5, 2007) As the Primary season begins, now is the time for GunVoters to step up and make sure that they have a choice worth choosing come next November.  If GunVoters don’t stand up now, in the early Primaries, there will only be a choice between an anti-gun Democrat and an anti-gun Republican for President.  Here is an outline of the key candidates’ positions.  Democrats: If you are voting in a Democratic Primary, there is only one candidate with a pro-gun record; New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson.  Gov. Richardson had a good record as a Representative and as Governor.  All of the others have expressed strong anti-gun views. Republicans: If you are voting in a Republican Primary, things are a bit more complicated; here’s how they stack up.      Rudy Giuliani: "As a private citizen, as a prosecutor, as a Mayoral candidate and as Mayor, I have advocated for more regulated and more uniform gun licensing regulations, similar to those for a drivers license.” 1 While he has been attempting to downplay his gun control history during his presidential bid, gunowners see the shift with skepticism and I see no chance of Mayor Giuliani ever receiving even moderate support from GunVoters regardless of the Democratic candidate.      Mitt Romney: “We do have tough gun laws in Massachusetts. I support them. I won’t chip away at them. I believe they protect us and provide for our safety.” 2 Former Massachusetts Governor Romney has made efforts to try to win gunowner support including purchasing a Life Membership in NRA and proclaiming his love of guns and hunting – though he owns no guns and has only been hunting only twice.  As with Giuliani, I see no way that GunVoters would ever support Mitt Romney for President.     John McCain: "A few years ago, Congress passed a law to make sure people undergo a simple background check before buying a gun... Problem is, there's a dangerous loophole because right now the law doesn't cover most of America's gun shows." 3 Because Senator McCain was a fairly reliable pro-gun voter for many years, his anti-gun activities in recent years has been seen by gunowners as a betrayal.  Sponsoring a gun show restriction bill and joining forces with the anti-gun group “Americans for Gun Safety” have irreparably damaged Sen. McCain’s credibility with GunVoters.  In spite of McCain’s past support for gun rights, to GunVoters he is in the same category as Giuliani and Romney.     Fred Thompson: “The real effect of these gun-control measures is to place onerous restrictions on law-abiding citizens who use firearms for such legal activities as self-defense, sport-shooting, hunting, and collecting.” 4 Actor, former Senator from Tennessee, and former Watergate attorney, Fred Thompson is no-nonsense and pragmatic with a very good record on guns.  During his time in the Senate Thompson tended to vote with the Republican majority including going along with a strategy of heading off really bad gun legislation with less onerous bills.  On straight-up gun votes, Thompson has a near perfect record.  Thompson could expect strong GunVoter support in the General Election.     Mike Huckabee: “The Founding Fathers weren’t worried about our being able to bag a duck or a deer, they were worried about our keeping our fundamental freedoms.” 5 A former Governor of Arkansas, Huckabee is a true believer in the right to bear arms.  Huckabee has walked the talk and stood steadfast with the courage of his convictions in the face of immense media pressure after a highly publicized school shooting in his state.  He also publicly repudiated attempts to hold gun dealers and manufacturers responsible for the actions of armed criminals.  A real gun owner and hunter, Huckabee nonetheless rejects attempts to bind the Second Amendment to hunting.  If Mike Huckabee can secure the Republican nomination, he can expect overwhelming support from GunVoters no matter who the Democrats put forward.     Ron Paul: “I share our Founders’ belief that in a free society each citizen must have the right to keep and bear arms. They ratified the Second Amendment knowing that this right is the guardian of every other right, and they all would be horrified by the proliferation of unconstitutional legislation that prevents law-abiding Americans from exercising this right.” 6 One of the most ardent Second Amendment supporters in the US House of Representatives, Dr. Ron Paul is a committed Constitutionalist.  While he has been written off by the mainstream media and political pundits, Dr. Paul's campaign has been gaining momentum through alternative media with much of that support coming from gun rights activists.  Ron Paul would receive resounding GunVoter support if he were to secure the Republican nomination.   If GunVoters don’t get involved now, they will have little reason to get involved later. For the record, Tom Tancredo and Duncan Hunter both have good pro-gun records.  Tancredo has now dropped out of the race - as I  was expecting - and Hunter can't be far behind.

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It has always been Democrats, anti-gun. Republicans, lock and load..... 

I just joined the NRA, even though I do not now nor have I ever owned a pistol of rifle!

I'm considering a Glock.......I think's it's fashionable....... 

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Stock up on ammunition  (and incandescent light bulbs)

 

 

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A Glock is a great way to start. They are very anti-politically correct. They told Clinton to stick his Smith & Wesson under the table gun control and that they would see him in court. Glock sales skyrocketed and British owned Smith & Wesson went bankrupt and sold out. Even Police departments started buying Glocks. Take a class on gun safety when you do. The smart thing to do for yourself.Cheers! 

 

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HEY RAYJ: Welcome to the NRA--but you should also consider joining Gun Owners of America. GOA takes an even stronger stand on some gun issues than does NRA. I'd stay away from Glocks, which in my opinion are not very high quality weapons. Stick with the basics: the tried & true Colt .45 auto (or any other good .45, of which there are many. Also consider a Browning 9 mm. High Power. Great weapon. But DO take a gun safety class (NRA can help there), and DO a lot of practicing. And as the wise MSB recommends--stock up on as much ammo as you can afford, and do it soon. Whatever you buy, get a model that has an ammunition magazine capacity of at least 10 rounds, more if possible. Get a good pair of shooting glasses, and a good quality ear protection (fairly inexpensive). Involve your family also. Find a good shooting range, as my grandson and I have found, and have FUN.

msbobbie said:

Stock up on ammunition  (and incandescent light bulbs)

 

 

A very Wise Thought and Suggestion

 

Fred Thompson 2008

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Last year I bought glasses and pilot ear protectors.  It is a great sport and I will keep "oldone70''s entry about kinds of guns.   I have to break down and do something for myself and get one more hand gun from your named guns listed above.

Thanks for the tip on GOA.  I have hunted since I followed behind my Dad with a sling shot with be be's.  I have a 20 guage Mossburg and a 270 Parker Hale with excellent scope in case of unmentioned needs though implied.

My Dad has a 'reloader' that he and my brother and relative use, though I am many miles from his house.

We have a local sportsmen's club with various indoor and outdoor ranges.

Again, thanks to you for the GOA tip, which will guide our other readers.

Why must all decent non-violent people fight against "gun control"? Why is the right to keep and bear arms truly a fundamental individual right? What disarms the citizens? The idea of "gun control." It's the idea that only the government has the right to possess firearms, and that citizens have no unalienable right to use force to defend against aggression.

The Mother of All Stats The Human Cost of "Gun Control" Ideas

Government	Dates	Targets	Civiliams Killed	"Gun Control" Laws	Features of Over-all "Gun Control" scheme
Ottoman Turkey	1915-1917	Armenians (mostly Christians)	1-1.5 million	Art. 166, Pen. Code, 1866 & 1911 Proclamation, 1915	• Permits required •Government list of owners •Ban on possession
Soviet Union	1929-1945	Political opponents; farming communities	20 million	Resolutions, 1918 Decree, July 12, 1920 Art. 59 & 182, Pen. code, 1926	•Licensing of owners •Ban on possession •Severe penalties
Nazi Germany & Occupied Europe	1933-1945	Political opponents; Jews; Gypsies; critics; "examples"	20 million	Law on Firearms & Ammun., 1928 Weapon Law, March 18, 1938 Regulations against Jews, 1938	•Registration & Licensing •Stricter handgun laws •Ban on possession
China, Nationalist	1927-1949	Political opponents; army conscripts; others	10 million	Art. 205, Crim. Code, 1914 Art. 186-87, Crim. Code, 1935	•Government permit system •Ban on private ownership
China, Red	1949-1952 1957-1960 1966-1976	Political opponents; Rural populations Enemies of the state	20-35 million	Act of Feb. 20, 1951 Act of Oct. 22, 1957	•Prison or death to "counter-revolutionary criminals" and anyone resisting any government program •Death penalty for supply guns to such "criminals"
Guatemala	1960-1981	Mayans & other Indians; political enemies	100,000- 200,000	Decree 36, Nov 25 •Act of 1932 Decree 386, 1947 Decree 283, 1964	•Register guns & owners •Licensing with high fees •Prohibit carrying guns •Bans on guns, sharp tools •Confiscation powers
Uganda	1971-1979	Christians Political enemies	300,000	Firearms Ordinance, 1955 Firearms Act, 1970	•Register all guns & owners •Licenses for transactions •Warrantless searches •Confiscation powers
Cambodia (Khmer Rouge)	1975-1979	Educated Persons; Political enemies	2 million	Art. 322-328, Penal Code Royal Ordinance 55, 1938	•Licenses for guns, owners, ammunition & transactions •Photo ID with fingerprints •License inspected quarterly
Rwanda	1994	Tutsi people	800,000	Decree-Law No. 12, 1979	•Register guns, owners, ammunition •Owners must justify need •Concealable guns illegal •Confiscating powers

When the gun prohibitionists quote a statistic about how many people are killed by firearms misuse, the discussion sometimes bogs down into whose crime stats to believe and how to count crimes vs. the defensive firearm uses. Death by Gun Control works on a level that nobody can dispute: documented world history.

In the 20th Century:

• Governments murdered four times as many civilians as were killed in all the international and domestic wars combined.
• Governments murdered millions more people than were killed by common criminals.

How could governments kill so many people? The governments had the power - and the people, the victims, were unable to resist. The victims were unarmed.

Truth They Cannot Refute

Death by Gun Control delivers the essential - and gut wrenching -- truth that the anti-self defense "gun control" advocates never try to refute. They simply cannot refute the facts or the formula.

Here's the Formula: Hatred + Government + Disarmed Civilians = Genocide

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 I agree completely. If we lose our right to bear arms, it's all over. We must stick together to fight for our second ammendment, even if we don't own any guns.  

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Let's see you're gonna protect the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America with a non-American weapon.  Buy American

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USPATRIOT said:  I agree completely. If we lose our right to bear arms, it's all over. We must stick together to fight for our second ammendment, even if we don't own any guns.  

 

The way things are going, I do not have a whole lot of faith in our keeping the Constitution, much less any single part of it. 

 

They can just let us keep the second amendment and as many guns as we can collect, but they are useless without ammunition.

 

The second amendment does guarentee us the right to keep and bear arms, it does not guarentee us the right to have ammunition for them, however.  I have read that the majority of our ammo, like everything else, is now being manufactured overseas.  Is that correct?

 

 

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HEY MODILL: SUPER EXCELLENT POST!!!! One of the best I've read on FS recently, and very, very true. That's the most accurate, and frightening, "formula" I've ever read! And SP, my friend: My Llama or Browning can take care of 2 legged "varmints" just as well as my Colt or your Glock. They've become "naturalized" citizens of my family. Ha Ha! AND MSB: I've heard a similar warning from Pastor Chuck Baldwin recently, that the cost of ammo will increase and its availability will greatly decrease in the next year or so, because the Chinese are buying up all of the ammo making components from "our" manufacturers. Don't know for certain how much of our ammo is made off-shore, but I suspect it's a sizable quantity.

msbobbie said:

USPATRIOT said:  I agree completely. If we lose our right to bear arms, it's all over. We must stick together to fight for our second ammendment, even if we don't own any guns.  

 

The way things are going, I do not have a whole lot of faith in our keeping the Constitution, much less any single part of it. 

 

They can just let us keep the second amendment and as many guns as we can collect, but they are useless without ammunition.

 

The second amendment does guarentee us the right to keep and bear arms, it does not guarentee us the right to have ammunition for them, however.  I have read that the majority of our ammo, like everything else, is now being manufactured overseas.  Is that correct?

 

 

 

Thats why i reload ; )... An there is so much military surplus ammo out there... An without ammo the arms orent arms they are big papper wieghts... so i think the second amendment would protect that as well...

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(CM) theSuperPatriot said: Let's see you're gonna protect the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America with a non-American weapon.  Buy American

I am surprised! With a name like SuperPatriot I didn’t expect a sarcastic remark like that about defending the Constitution of the United States of America. You hurt my feelings. I would expect that all real patriots would be defending our great Constitution in the time of need with whatever they could find or afford. I guess when you get up in the morning and put on your shirt (made in Vietnam) and hurry to tie you sneakers (made in China) then look down at your watch (made in Japan) you realize your running behind so you jump into your car (made in Germany) and stop at the gas station to fill up with gas (from Venezuela or Iran). You didn’t have time for breakfast so you stop on the way for coffee (Columbia) at Starbucks (anti American – hate the troops company) and finally arrive at you company (foreign owned but you still need a job). After work you going to go look for a gun and by gosh it better be American made because you  won’t stand for anything less!

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msbobbie said:

USPATRIOT said:  I agree completely. If we lose our right to bear arms, it's all over. We must stick together to fight for our second ammendment, even if we don't own any guns.  

 

The way things are going, I do not have a whole lot of faith in our keeping the Constitution, much less any single part of it. 

 

They can just let us keep the second amendment and as many guns as we can collect, but they are useless without ammunition.

 

The second amendment does guarentee us the right to keep and bear arms, it does not guarentee us the right to have ammunition for them, however.  I have read that the majority of our ammo, like everything else, is now being manufactured overseas.  Is that correct?

 

 

Cheap NATO Surplus Military ammo (308, 223, 9mm) dried up about 2 years ago. Because of the conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan and other uncertainties in the Middle East a lot of countries that were selling it to get money have stopped. You can still get some 30-06 because it’s not much in demand anymore.

We still have many American ammo manufactures working hard to supply the war, Lake City, Federal, Winchester just to name a few. The cost is a lot higher because the Chinese are buying up raw materials like brass and lead. They don’t need American ammo.

However there is competition in the ammo market that American companies didn’t used to have to put up with like Russian Wolf and Bear, Sellier & Bellot and old eastern bloc countries selling cheap and surplus ammo because of the increase of popularity of the AK type weapons.

 

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Let’s see I think Glock is used by more US police departments than any other weapon or at least they come close to it and let’s not forget that the US military adopted the Beretta as their US issue sidearm not to mention that our 50 caliber semi-auto sniper rifles are now made in England of all places.

 John Browning was and is the undisputed all time greatest gun genius of the world who give us the 1911 45cal handgun and the BAR - Browning Automatic Rifle not to mention scores of others. Even in death his designs and patents still reign in the gun world. He held more gun patents than anyone. He left the US and moved to Belgium over being cheated out of some his patents.  We couldn’t have fought WWII without them. Many of his designed weapons are still used by our military today.

Smith & Wesson is starting to make a comeback after being destroyed because of their collusion with the Clintonistas and his plan for back door gun registrations. Thank God the British owned S&W sold out in bankruptcy to a fine American company that dumped the Clintons and recognized they were a gun company of “The People” again and not a prostitute of the gun grabbers. Just to prove it the first new gun they come out with was their big 50cal revolver. That caused Sara Brady and Chuck Schumer to go into convulsions and sent a signal that they weren’t gonna play ball with the left.

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modill said:

msbobbie said:

USPATRIOT said:  I agree completely. If we lose our right to bear arms, it's all over. We must stick together to fight for our second ammendment, even if we don't own any guns.  

 

The way things are going, I do not have a whole lot of faith in our keeping the Constitution, much less any single part of it. 

 

They can just let us keep the second amendment and as many guns as we can collect, but they are useless without ammunition.

 

The second amendment does guarentee us the right to keep and bear arms, it does not guarentee us the right to have ammunition for them, however.  I have read that the majority of our ammo, like everything else, is now being manufactured overseas.  Is that correct?

 

 

Cheap NATO Surplus Military ammo (308, 223, 9mm) dried up about 2 years ago. Because of the conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan and other uncertainties in the Middle East a lot of countries that were selling it to get money have stopped. You can still get some 30-06 because it’s not much in demand anymore.

We still have many American ammo manufactures working hard to supply the war, Lake City, Federal, Winchester just to name a few. The cost is a lot higher because the Chinese are buying up raw materials like brass and lead. They don’t need American ammo.

However there is competition in the ammo market that American companies didn’t used to have to put up with like Russian Wolf and Bear, Sellier & Bellot and old eastern bloc countries selling cheap and surplus ammo because of the increase of popularity of the AK type weapons.

 

 

Wolf makes 223 to, i just got big box...

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Randynaz said:

modill said:

msbobbie said:

USPATRIOT said:  I agree completely. If we lose our right to bear arms, it's all over. We must stick together to fight for our second ammendment, even if we don't own any guns.  

 

The way things are going, I do not have a whole lot of faith in our keeping the Constitution, much less any single part of it. 

 

They can just let us keep the second amendment and as many guns as we can collect, but they are useless without ammunition.

 

The second amendment does guarentee us the right to keep and bear arms, it does not guarentee us the right to have ammunition for them, however.  I have read that the majority of our ammo, like everything else, is now being manufactured overseas.  Is that correct?

 

 

Cheap NATO Surplus Military ammo (308, 223, 9mm) dried up about 2 years ago. Because of the conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan and other uncertainties in the Middle East a lot of countries that were selling it to get money have stopped. You can still get some 30-06 because it’s not much in demand anymore.

We still have many American ammo manufactures working hard to supply the war, Lake City, Federal, Winchester just to name a few. The cost is a lot higher because the Chinese are buying up raw materials like brass and lead. They don’t need American ammo.

However there is competition in the ammo market that American companies didn’t used to have to put up with like Russian Wolf and Bear, Sellier & Bellot and old eastern bloc countries selling cheap and surplus ammo because of the increase of popularity of the AK type weapons.

 

 

Wolf makes 223 to, i just got big box...

 

Yea - Stock up!

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Poll Finds 66% of Voters Want No New Gun Laws
A recent Zogby International poll conducted for Associated Television News found that 66% of the American voting public rejects the idea that new gun control laws are needed.

The poll asked: “Which of the following two statements regarding gun control comes closer to your own opinion? Statement A: There needs to be new and tougher gun control legislation to help in the fight against gun crime. Statement B: There are enough laws on the books. What is needed is better enforcement of current laws regarding gun control.”

Conversely, the poll found that just 31% of the American public thinks new and tougher gun control laws are needed, and that voters who support better enforcement of existing gun laws are found across virtually all demographic groups, and in all regions of the country. 

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I like that poll MODILL. It seems to me that maybe the gun owners aren't the only ones willing to stand up for our 2nd Amendment. Good deal!!!      GREAT DEAL!!!!!

Now about the government keeping ammunition from us. It all sounds good. RANDYNAZ'S email even puts it forth very convincingly but I don't see us holding weapons without ammo. Our weapons manufacturers would certainly be on our side and would surely see that we have ammo available. Then there are the seperate ammo manufacturers. I don't suppose they want to just stop their livelyhood, do you?

If all else fails...the bad guys get guns now.....why can't the good guys get ammo then?

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