A group of congressmen asked the Department of Veterans Affairs to Retain Flag-folding

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October 30, 2007 06:50 PM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
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September 12, 2007

Furor After Ceremonial Flag-Folding Readings Pulled From Military Funerals

Tuesday, October 30, 2007

A group of congressmen has asked the Department of Veterans Affairs to retain the tradition of reciting the significance of each fold in the flag-folding ceremony at military funerals.

"The flag folding recitation is a longstanding tradition which brings comfort to the living and honor to the deceased," Rep. Heath Shuler, D-N.C., writes in his letter Tuesday signed by 11 other congressmen. "The recitations accompanying each fold pay tribute to the service and sacrifice of our veterans and their families, the nation they proudly serve, and the beliefs that they hold dear."

Veterans Affairs has a policy that allows for a full military funeral, which includes the playing of taps and the folding of the flag in respectful silence. Upon request, family can have honor guard read special recitations, which include religious symbolism.

A complaint was filed to the White House after one of those recitations was read incorrectly. Steve L. Muro, the director of the National Cemetery Administration's field programs office, ordered cemetery directors to stop the readings.

Click here to read the memo (pdf).

"There are no federal laws related to the flag that assign any special meaning to the
individual folds of the flag," Muro wrote in a memo obtained by FOXNews.com. "The National Cemetery Administration must not give meaning, or appear to give meaning to the folds of the flag by endorsing or distributing any handouts on 'The Meaning of Each Fold of an Honor Guard Funeral Flag."

The stopping of the recitations has caused a furor among veterans. Members of the American Legion have been flooding national headquarters since the decision, according to Ramona Joyce, an organization spokeswoman.

"To me, it's a slap in the face for every veteran, every member of the Memorial Honor Detail and every family of the deceased veteran," said Rees Lloyd, a member of the American Legion's Memorial Honor Detail for services at Riverside National Cemetery in California.

At issue are secondary meanings attached to the folding of the flag. As the honor guard makes the 13 folds — traditionally representing the original colonies — they recite "the first fold of our flag is a symbol of life, the second fold is a symbol of our belief in the eternal life, etc."

A complaint about the recitation for the 11th fold — "in the eyes of a Hebrew citizen, represents the lower portion of the seal of King David and King Solomon, and glorifies, in their eyes, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob" — garnered a complaint and prompted the ban.

The Sept. 27 ban was an effort to create uniform services throughout the military graveyard system, spokesman Mike Nacincik said, adding the 13-fold recital is not part of the U.S. Flag Code and is not government-approved.

"We definitely think it is a matter left up to the families," Joyce said. "It's a nice ceremony; we've been doing it for years. Our honor guards have been doing it," she said.

"It's respectful and it's something the family should be able to choose to have done if they so wish for their veteran," Joyce continued.

Lloyd thinks it's a matter of political correctness gone wild.

"The entirety of this issue is an absurdity that shows political correctness and secular cleansing run amok," Lloyd said. "This is about families of deceased veterans putting to rest their loved ones. No one should interfere with their choices."

The 12th fold recitation is geared to Christians, saying the fold "represents an emblem of eternity and glorifies, in their eyes, God the Father, the Son and Holy Ghost."

In the Legion's burning ceremony for the dignified disposal of unserviceable flags, a chaplain invokes the name of God with lines like "as they yield their substance to the fire, may your holy light spread over us and bring our hearts renewed devotion to God and country," Joyce said.

"When we got back from the war, we didn't ask for a whole lot," said Bobby Castillo, 85, a World War II Navy veteran. "We just want to give our veterans the respect they deserve. No one has ever complained to us about it. I just don't understand."

Lloyd and Castillo are part of a 16-member detail that have performed military honors at more than 1,400 services. They were preparing to read the flag-folding remarks at the Riverside cemetery when graveyard staff stopped them.

Charlie Waters, parliamentarian for the American Legion of California, said he's advising memorial honor details to ignore the edict.

"This is nuts," Waters told the Press-Enterprise by telephone from Fresno. "There are 26 million veterans in this country and they're not going to take us all to prison."

Nacincik said that while the flag-folding narrative includes references to God that the government does not endorse, the main reason for the new rules is uniformity.

"We are looking at consistency," Nacincik said. "We think that's important."

Rabbi Yitzhak Miller of Temple Beth El said he understands the ban.

"It is a perfect example of government choosing to ignore religion in order to avoid offending some religions," Miller said. "To me, ignoring religion in general is just as problematic as endorsing any one religion."

Shuler's letter urged Veterans Affairs to change its mind.

"Please reconsider the policy and allow the Memorial Honor Detail volunteers to perform the traditional flag-folding recitation if requested by the family of the deceased," he wrote.

Lloyd said the honor guard would decide whether to defy the ban next Tuesday, when it will serve at more military funerals.

"We are going to abide by the wishes of the families," Lloyd said. "Not some bureaucrat in Washington, D.C. Period."




"Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
October 30, 2007 06:58 PM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
Member Since:
May 25, 2007
Good for them!  Whoever that bureaucrat is in DC needs to be outsted!


Washington State
October 31, 2007 10:53 PM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
Member Since:
February 14, 2007
Been educating the members of several area churches about this matter and have received alot of angry support.


Alabama born and bred. Where we "Dare Defend our Rights!"
October 31, 2007 11:20 PM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
Member Since:
September 12, 2007
On the news it sounded like to get the flag folding cerimony you have to request it and then provide a "paid or vol Military type" to carry out the vocal part.  Hopefully that will be changed.  It should be the other way around that if you don't want the ceremony you must request it doesn't happen.  The VA gives shoddy service no matter what it does, period.


"Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
October 31, 2007 11:50 PM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
Member Since:
September 12, 2007

VA and Pentagon Agree to Improve Care (except for the flag folding right?)

Wednesday, October 31, 2007

WASHINGTON —  The Bush administration announced preliminary steps Wednesday to improve treatment for wounded veterans with the hiring of staff to coordinate care between the Pentagon and Veterans Affairs Department.

The agreement signed Wednesday by the two departments creates "federal recovery coordinators," a recommendation of the presidential commission chaired by former Sen. Bob Dole, R-Kan., and former Health and Human Services Secretary Donna Shalala that was set up following disclosures of substandard care at Walter Reed Army Medical Center.

"There's a lot that we can do through the executive branch with those recommendations, but the president will also continue to call on Congress to do its part," said White House press secretary Dana Perino.

The coordinators will oversee medical care coordination between the two departments, which have joint responsibility in caring for wounded veterans. The coordinators will also work closely with family members to take care of services and needs.

The first 10 coordinators, scheduled to be hired by Dec. 1, will work at military health care facilities and at any other locations where patients are later assigned. They will be located at Walter Reed; the Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, Md.; the Brooke Army Medical Center at Fort Sam Houston, Texas; and Balboa Park Naval Medical Center in San Diego.




"Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams

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