Ron Paul Opposes Deportation of Illegals

URL Source: http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php? aid=11833
Published: Oct 30, 2007
Author: S.J. Miller and Rasmussen
Post Date: 2007-10-30 00:42:53 by DAnconia55

Another excerpt from FederalObserver.com. A worthwhile source. This is an email exchange between intrepid reporter/author S.J Miller and an official Juan Paul Spokesman on Immigration, Don Rasmussen. This is a lengthy article, and contains many back and forth exchanges with Juan Paul officials. It is CURRENT to this year and directly relevant to the discussion here on LP.

Rasmussen, 4:45 p.m.: Deporting 10 million people isn't going to happen. Dr. Paul is realistic about this and knows that America is compassionate and is not going to try a policy that would lead to horrific human rights abuses on the scale of Bosnia or Ottoman Turkey.

Miller, 6:00 p.m.:

The conclusion that "10 million people are too many to deport so...." is what we heard ad nauseum from Senators to justify their supporting illegal alien amnesty. You say "Amnety - No," but admitting that illegal aliens already here won't be deported IS AMNESTY. (I don't know what Dr. Paul's definition of amnesty is - and this year there have been more "redefinitions" than you could shake a stick at - but AMNESTY is anything that allows an illegal alien to remain in the US - citizenship or lack thereof is irrelevant. It can't be both ways, Don.

That Congressman Paul supports illegal alien amnesty is no surprise with his voting record of supporting the Section 245(i) amnesty in the past. The punch line to the old joke seems to apply here: "We've already established what he is, we're just arguing about the price." It's not the PRINCIPLE of amnesty to which he objects, just the numbers involved.

It seems plain that Congressman Paul will do nothing to stop illegal aliens from coming here and nothing to stop employers from hiring them. His position seems to be that if they can get here illegally, they get to stay despite having broken the law to do it.

How is this position not amnesty? Not just a "one-time amnesty," but a continuing amnesty.

It seems obvious that Congressman Paul rejects the "Attrition through Enforcement" strategy which would reduce the illegal alien population through enforcement of current laws. Would he do just as George Bush does now - totally ignore current laws requiring prosecution of employers who hire illegals?

Rasmussen, 7:21 p.m.: Deportation - If you advocate rounding up 10-20 million people and all of the mass human suffering and rights' abuses that would accompany such an effort, then no Dr. Paul is probably not your candidate. He has a Christian soul and believes, as I do, that we are all God's creatures.

Miller, 8:13 p.m. (FINAL):
Nowhere have I advocated what you cite as "rounding up 10-20 million people and all of the mass human suffering and rights' abuses that would accompany such an effort." Nor does the Attrition through Enforcement strategy employ such methods. Please be aware that your tactic is an old trick by the pro-amnesty crowd, led by Senator John McCain. The bill of goods they try to peddle is that there are only two possible solutions: (1) Allow illegal aliens to remain in the US, which is amnesty or (2) "Mass Roundups," invoking Gestapo-like tactics with railroad cars. Just as does Senator McCain, you refuse to recognize a third possibility that HAS been effective - Attrition through Enforcement. The most obvious reason for your refusal is that Dr. Paul really doesn't want to rid the US of illegal aliens - he wants to keep them here. That's called amnesty, plain and simple.

Rasmussen, 7:21 p.m.: No candidate is advocating the kind of strategy that you seem to favor. If this is your litmus test for support, I find it unlikely that you will find any candidate that meets with your approval.

Miller, 8:13 p.m. (FINAL):
Your claim that "No candidate is advocating the kind of strategy that you seem to favor" is just plain wrong. Both Congressmen Tancredo and Hunter advocate such a strategy. By doing you the favor of concluding that you're simply uninformed rather than that you're intentionally lying to me, I'm demonstrating that I too have a Christian soul.

Rasmussen, 7:21 p.m.: What I don't see is any viable candidate willing to do as much or more than Dr. Paul to solve the problem consistent with our Constitution and our shared values.

Miller, 8:13 p.m.: You repeatedly cite the Constitution, but also repeatedly evade specifying where in the Constitution I may look to substantiate your claims.

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Bravo, Graciela!

And I've been a Ron Paul fan, back and forth between him and Hunter. This interview between the wonderful, hard-hitting inverstigative writer Sandra J. Miller is one that (along with her 3 other The Ron Paul Myth articles) I posted here on numerous threads a month ago. Some read them and left for Hunter of Tancredo or other candidate or perhaps just depression. I will say, to be fair, that Ms. Miller is NOT a Ron Paul fan, but I don't believe she is inherently biased towards him.

Of course, Rasmussen (Paul's spokeshole) is a dope, an idiot. He had NO idea who he was dealing with in Ms. Miller. Paul will not discuss what he'll do with the 38 million-plus illegals here, and THAT is the one issue that will cost him MY vote and other real conservative's votes IF he doesn't fess up AND ANSWER it now! Fred Thompson, those poor executed black teens in NJ and now the San Diego/L.A. fires (deliberatedly set by at least one illegal alien and another who was shot dead by police) have brought the ugly issue of the Invasion by Mexico to the fore. I'm certainly not endorsing FT anymore than Terry Anderson did last Sun. on his show where he lauded and thanked Thompson for his complete reversal (it seems) on the issue since his now-famous March interview with Chris Wallace where he sounded like he didn't know what he was talking about and was clearly on the silent amnesty side of things.

If RonPaul08 or any other Paulian here has a believable response to this post by Graciela, then please do us the honor. However, I as an on and off RP supporter am going to make Sandra L. Miller proud by, for now, withdrawing my vote and support for the man until he comes clean on this issue. He's come out against the SPP and NAU, which is making Daneen G. Peterson happy, but he is NOT making me or many other realcons very happy putting dufusses like Mr. Rasmussen out there to try to throw us off the scent!

The evil in paul will continue to come out Alwas remember the word Libertarian when you think of Juan Paul.

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blaze:

You're implying his constant use of "laissez faire"? Leave well enough alone? IE McCain's famous "silent amnesty"?? If so, I agree. How Paul can equate being "fair" to lawbreaking foreign nationals in the face of stats and true stories--right up to and including the Fires in So. Cal. where people were burned to death--is beyond me. I suppose his Vietnam experience taught him to be "nice" to people. Sorry, Rep. Paul, but that position doesn't wash with me.

Graciela,

Thank you for posting this information. I had been leaning toward Ron Paul (leaning only, to date I have been in favor of Fred Thompson). I sent an email to Ron Paul's campaign crew and told them that Ron Paul's position as shown by Don Rasmussen's answers in the above interview is one that eliminates Ron Paul as a candidate for me.

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/bor...

He is for border and coastline security, whatever it takes.

Enforce Visa rules, no amnesty for 20 milion illegals, no welfare for illegals, and end birthright citizenship for children of illegals.

He is for immigration reform that is not insane with numbers or favoritism.

He has been consistent with this stand for a long time.

Not mentioning enforcement of existing laws i.e. Sec8USC1324-5, and attrition through enforcement, or mass deportations and fines, leads me to believe he is too nice, and I will no longer give him money, but will continue to give Tom Tancredo donations as I am able. I do not believe Thompson's sudden turn to attrition, after all, he IS a CFR member.

Of course, I do believe Ron Paul is purposely downplaying this aspect, and not mentioning illegals much, to keep up the likeable image and gain votes.

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Mgopilot: http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/bor... He is for border and coastline security, whatever it takes. Enforce Visa rules, no amnesty for 20 milion illegals, no welfare for illegals, and end birthright citizenship for children of illegals. He is for immigration reform that is not insane with numbers or favoritism. He has been consistent with this stand for a long time. Not mentioning enforcement of existing laws i.e. Sec8USC1324-5, and attrition through enforcement, or mass deportations and fines, leads me to believe he is too nice, and I will no longer give him money, but will continue to give Tom Tancredo donations as I am able. I do not believe Thompson's sudden turn to attrition, after all, he IS a CFR member. Of course, I do believe Ron Paul is purposely downplaying this aspect, and not mentioning illegals much, to keep up the likeable image and gain votes.

AF: This pretty much sums up how I feel, too. However, in light of this - I still support RP - only b/c of the many other issues facing our nation. I do hope that RP steps it up a notch and takes a stand on the ones already here.

I believe Thompson's new found views on attrition as much as I believe Bush was sincere about not nation building in 2000.

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One of the things that you'll find in these elections is how important and savy the political operatives are who handle these candidates.   The thing that killed off Ross Perot were dumb-dumbs running his campaign, and you will find the same surrounding Ron Paul....in the long haul.   You may not believe it now, but it will come home to roost and haunt you.

And you wonder if the Ron Paul Supporters are getting their heads out of the sand, or may I say, keeping their heads in the sand.

Look at RP's voting record. Look who was for Amnesty. You are right Suzi. It will come back to haunt us if in fact he even can make a run towards the White House. So, no need to worry there. It just ain't gonna happen.

Thanks for your input and hang in there with us.....:)

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My goodness people, Ron Paul is the STRONGEST candidate on matters of illegal immigration and border security for as much as our Constitution allows the federal government to do.  Do you guys not think that perhaps states might take care of this matter themselves too if it wasn't for federal mandates preventing officers from even ASKING about citizenship or alien status?! 

Do any of you even think that if you eliminate the welfare magnets, and birthright citizenship (which ending this was Ron Paul's bill), that perhaps these illegals would go home?

The lies and smearing, especially from FireSociety moderators, about Ron Paul is really despicable.  But alas, as the old Gandhi quote goes: "First they ignore you, than they laugh at you, than they attack you, and then you win".

If some of you think that immigration is the be all end and end all single issue that would fix America you guys are sadly mistaken.  There is nothing about that process that will stop the globalists are their goal.  This has to be done with monetary policy.  The be all and end all is the Constitution, which does not allow for a Federal Reserve.

 

It's good these scorecards exist which are actually based on votes and quotes from individuals themselves, easy enough to cut right through the spinmeister's garbage:

 

Immigration-Reduction Report Card   OVERALL GRADES Career Recent View History 2005 - 2007 Grades Updated: October 25, 2007   • View scorecard for computing Career & Recent • View all actions graded by ABI • Compare grades with all of Congress • View all of Rep. Paul's immigration actions • Send faxes to Congress about its record   GRADES updates? Your email: • Back to Texas state page • Rep. Paul's contact info • Grade Card homepage   For computations and comparisons click on letter grades below Subject Grades Career Recent See more on this subject Reduce CHAIN MIGRATION No Votes No Votes See more on this subject Reduce VISA LOTTERY See more on this subject Reduce Unnecessary Visas FOREIGN WORKERS See more on this subject Reduce Fraud REFUGEE & ASYLUM No Votes No Votes See more on this subject Reduce Enticement for Illegal Immigration AMNESTIES See more on this subject Reduce Illegal Immigration ANCHOR BABY CITIZENSHIP See more on this subject Reduce Illegal Immigration OTHER REWARDS See more on this subject Reduce Illegal Immigration BORDER CONTROL See more on this subject Reduce Illegal Immigration INTERIOR ENFORCEMENT

w w w .C o n g r e s s G r a d e s . c o m

 

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RonPaul08 said:

My goodness people, Ron Paul is the STRONGEST candidate on matters of illegal immigration and border security for as much as our Constitution allows the federal government to do.  Do you guys not think that perhaps states might take care of this matter themselves too if it wasn't for federal mandates preventing officers from even ASKING about citizenship or alien status?! 

Do any of you even think that if you eliminate the welfare magnets, and birthright citizenship (which ending this was Ron Paul's bill), that perhaps these illegals would go home?

The lies and smearing, especially from FireSociety moderators, about Ron Paul is really despicable.  But alas, as the old Gandhi quote goes: "First they ignore you, than they laugh at you, than they attack you, and then you win".

If some of you think that immigration is the be all end and end all single issue that would fix America you guys are sadly mistaken.  There is nothing about that process that will stop the globalists are their goal.  This has to be done with monetary policy.  The be all and end all is the Constitution, which does not allow for a Federal Reserve.

 

It's good these scorecards exist which are actually based on votes and quotes from individuals themselves, easy enough to cut right through the spinmeister's garbage:

 

Immigration-Reduction Report Card   OVERALL GRADES Career Recent View History 2005 - 2007 Grades Updated: October 25, 2007   • View scorecard for computing Career & Recent • View all actions graded by ABI • Compare grades with all of Congress • View all of Rep. Paul's immigration actions • Send faxes to Congress about its record   GRADES updates? Your email: • Back to Texas state page • Rep. Paul's contact info • Grade Card homepage   For computations and comparisons click on letter grades below Subject Grades Career Recent See more on this subject Reduce CHAIN MIGRATION No Votes No Votes See more on this subject Reduce VISA LOTTERY See more on this subject Reduce Unnecessary Visas FOREIGN WORKERS See more on this subject Reduce Fraud REFUGEE & ASYLUM No Votes No Votes See more on this subject Reduce Enticement for Illegal Immigration AMNESTIES See more on this subject Reduce Illegal Immigration ANCHOR BABY CITIZENSHIP See more on this subject Reduce Illegal Immigration OTHER REWARDS See more on this subject Reduce Illegal Immigration BORDER CONTROL See more on this subject Reduce Illegal Immigration INTERIOR ENFORCEMENT

Thanks for cutting through the BS. The man's record, while not perfect, is 100% better than Giuliani, Romney and Thompson. The only two that are on a par with Paul's stand on illegal immigration are Tancredo and Hunter. No rational person is proposing rounding up and deporting 12-20 million people. But, eliminating the job  magnets and the anchor baby situation will make millions of them self deport over a period of time. Not only that but it will make millions of other potential illegals decide to stay home. w w w .C o n g r e s s G r a d e s . c o m

 

 

My goodness people, Ron Paul is the STRONGEST candidate on matters of illegal immigration and border security for as much as our Constitution allows the federal government to do.

Hardly the strongest.  Tancredo and Hunter both have an A+ which was better than a B or B+ when I went to school, but that was a long time ago!

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I rest my case, Ron Paul 08.

If you are going to have a successful run, you have to be pragmatic, and not idealistic.   I agree w/ all you say about Ron Paul.   However, he has unfortunate negatives which are going to prevent success.   One of the biggest negatives is the people supporting him don't know a great deal about politics. 

For one, the US is a warlike country.   They will never elect someone who feels about conflict as Ron Paul does....which is libertarian in nature. Primarily you are dealing w/ a conservative bloc from the Republican Party as strength, and you have to be wise enough to understand the basic vote.  Also, at this time we are faced w/ possible attack from a number of different areas.

I've been down this road before....for Goldwater, for Perot, who both would have been better than what we elected.

Guiliani is not an option primarily for Southerners and mid-America.   We are looking for a candidate.   There are more moderates and conservatives, both parties, looking for a candidate than those who've committed to a candidate.

You would actually be doing this country more of a favor if you would push the coming NWO and CFR agenda so that it is clearly understood, rather than push Ron Paul.   If everyone in the country understood that, we would not be scrambling so.

And, you definitely do not want to elect someone 71 years old....no matter who he is.

 

And, you definitely do not want to elect someone 71 years old....no matter who he is.

Exactly!  He's 72 NOW....he'd be chasing 74 in 2009!

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RP08...Once again...Wrong...Tom Tancredo has been working on this for years. Who do you think gave Ron Paul the idea to stand up. Here we go again about the Moderator's at Fire Society. Atack, attack, attack.

Now, I hvae tried to be fair and balanced as far as Ron Paul is concerned but I will not take anymore bashing from you RP08. It's always the Moderators huh Rp08?

Nuff said. We need to meet in person as we are from the same state and I would bet you any amount of money that we would end up in a very good position with each other. Shortie too.

But, do what you want. I just know for a fact that, like I have said many times before, that Ron Paul won't make it. Care to make a bet with me? A gentlemens bet. Anyway, I did what you had asked me to do iin your email and I did do that for you.

This is the last time I will comment on a Ron Paul thread and I will be monitoring it without speaking. I see anymore bashing of The Moderators or other FS member's just because they don't agree with one person as in yourself, I will contact Sean immediatley. Then, I will delete yours or anyone elses inflamatory remarks.

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How old are the others?   On the side of enforcing immigration laws and the borders we have Tancredo and Hunter around 62.  The rest are far too old--especially Thompson.   Some of the others also look like walking corpses.

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Looking at Ron Paul you better be more concerned with who the VP will be because I doubt the old fart will live long enough to complete the first term. I really think he has alzheimers setting in as well, you know the deer in the headlight stare duh what am I doing here.

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Border Security and Immigration Reform

The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:

• Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
• Enforce visa rules.  Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.  This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
• No amnesty.  Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
• No welfare for illegal aliens.  Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules.  But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
• End birthright citizenship.  As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong. 
• Pass true immigration reform.  The current system is incoherent and unfair.  But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation.  This is insanity.  Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

What is interesting about this thread's dig on Ron Paul is the fact no one is real outspoken about loading up millions of illegals and shipping them back where they come. Even Tennessee Fred said recently and publically it was absurd to think this country can load 'em and ship 'em out.

So you give me the answer. If it were me I would load 'em up and ship 'em out!!! Then we get into all the civil rights issues , many of which are spurred by folks like the Mexican government who really have no say how the U.S. is run yet seem to think it does!!!

Tancredo probably comes closest to wanting to load 'em up and ship 'em out. What has he said publically about the subject of deportation? Enlighten me! 

Current ages:

Hunter  59

Romney  60

Tancredo turns 62 Dec

Huckabee  62

Guiliani  63

Thompson  65

McCain  71

Paul 72

Anyone will tell you who lives around a bunch of illegals and knows them that they will all leave on their own were the jobs to dry up or the policia be looking for them, asking questions.   Doesn't take much.  You don't have to ship them anywhere.   Anytime I hear a politician talk about how do we  get them outta here, I understand they don't understand much about the situation.

shortie said:

Border Security and Immigration Reform

The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:

• Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
• Enforce visa rules.  Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.  This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
• No amnesty.  Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
• No welfare for illegal aliens.  Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules.  But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
• End birthright citizenship.  As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong. 
• Pass true immigration reform.  The current system is incoherent and unfair.  But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation.  This is insanity.  Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

What is interesting about this thread's dig on Ron Paul is the fact no one is real outspoken about loading up millions of illegals and shipping them back where they come. Even Tennessee Fred said recently and publically it was absurd to think this country can load 'em and ship 'em out.

So you give me the answer. If it were me I would load 'em up and ship 'em out!!! Then we get into all the civil rights issues , many of which are spurred by folks like the Mexican government who really have no say how the U.S. is run yet seem to think it does!!!

Tancredo probably comes closest to wanting to load 'em up and ship 'em out. What has he said publically about the subject of deportation? Enlighten me! 

 

Loading them all up and deporting them isn't practical. But removing the job magnets by imposing huge fines and jail time on their employers will make millions of them self deport. Stopping the anchor baby travesty will remove many more. Removing the possibility of them getting any social benefits will make our country look downright inhospitable to law breakers. 

These actions would rid us of most of them over a period of time. It will also deter other potential illegals from coming because they know they will not get work or hand outs.

The ones that don't leave will be easier to track down and remove.

All this would take some time to implement. I'm willing to be patient as long as I would see action.

Now the question is who is the candidate most likely to follow through on these proposals?

Not one democrat would qualify. Giulian's sanctuary city record disqualifies him. Romney has a less than  stellar anti-illegal alien record as governor of MA. Regardless of what Thompson is saying now his senate voting record leaves a question mark on him. Huckabee ran a sanctuary state, in part to keep Tyson happy. No reason to think he would do any thing different as president.

That leaves Hunter, Paul and Tancredo (in alphabetical order). The 64 thousand dollar question is......how do we get one of them elected President and another one as vice president?

For those who think we should be looking at more issues, than just illegal immigration, here is a thought.......the war will eventually end and a lot of the other social ills the country is encountering revolve around the illegal alien invasion. Over crowded schools, closing emergency rooms, increased crime, exotic diseases, depressed wages, increased duis, robberies, rapes, murders, over crowded prisons, middle class neighborhoods turned into tenements, the list goes on.  

If we don't get someone willing to stop the unfettered invasion America, as we know it, will cease to exist. All the other problems will pale in comparison to what will confront us with millions  more  aliens who will come here with an entitlement attitude, who will refuse to assimilate and who will refuse to learn our language.

Elect strong pro American leaders, presidential and congressional, and we eliminate most of the other problems.

So, who has the best chance to clean up the mess in DC?