California Fire(s)

 Check this out.  It will be interesting to see who set these fires.?

 

 http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/...

If it doesn't work, copy and paste 

 

 

Interesting article.  It will be interesting if we do find who did this.

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My wife speculates that it is terrorists. I said--it may be crusading college kids from Berkely.

Remember 'nam?????

I will be better off if I do not speculate and instead, pray that officials find out who is responsible.

Well now, remember, was it in AZ that fires were deliberately being set to distract the border patrol so that illegals could be smuggled across?  Some of those fires are VERY close to the Mexican borders, and I saw on a CNN map today that there are now fires in mexico probably due to flying embers. 

Heck, if that other thread is correct that you have a vanload of illegals stealing food/donations at qualcomm center meant for the refugees, then I would not put it past them to deliberately start fires to distract the border patrols from thousands more sneaking across the borders.

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VeeBee said:

Well now, remember, was it in AZ that fires were deliberately being set to distract the border patrol so that illegals could be smuggled across?  Some of those fires are VERY close to the Mexican borders, and I saw on a CNN map today that there are now fires in mexico probably due to flying embers. 

Heck, if that other thread is correct that you have a vanload of illegals stealing food/donations at qualcomm center meant for the refugees, then I would not put it past them to deliberately start fires to distract the border patrols from thousands more sneaking across the borders.

 

12 years ago I owned a house in Calif..  Many times there were fires in my neck of the country.  The fire department has guidlines on how far to keep natural brush from your home to protect it.  Many (a lot of) people ignore these guidlines and allow the stuff to grow within a few yards of their homes.  I really believe Californians need to be more prevention oriented.  Follow the guidelines and add many extra yards to it. I realize this won't stop all homes from being in danger, but it will definitely help.  I'd think insurance companies would even give incentives for lower premiums if people would go above the call of what is recommended.  Especially when you consider how expensive homes are now days in Calif..  A litte extra muscle applied once a year could mean saving ones home.  Even if you hired it out and it cost $500-$1,000 to have a good distance cleared from your home that would be significantly better than going through the hassel of losing it.

The news station right next to FoxNews I'm not sure what it is but the one who always personally cuts down Fox and especially Bill O'reilly, were really cutting down Fox last night cause Fox had said something about a 4 year old memo about Al Quada starting fires like that.  I wouldn't discount it right yet and there are supposed to be multiple unnatural hotspots.  I did go thru the big Oakland fire some years ago and they are plenty scarey no matter how they started.

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Gerald47 said:

VeeBee said:

Well now, remember, was it in AZ that fires were deliberately being set to distract the border patrol so that illegals could be smuggled across?  Some of those fires are VERY close to the Mexican borders, and I saw on a CNN map today that there are now fires in mexico probably due to flying embers. 

Heck, if that other thread is correct that you have a vanload of illegals stealing food/donations at qualcomm center meant for the refugees, then I would not put it past them to deliberately start fires to distract the border patrols from thousands more sneaking across the borders.

 

12 years ago I owned a house in Calif..  Many times there were fires in my neck of the country.  The fire department has guidlines on how far to keep natural brush from your home to protect it.  Many (a lot of) people ignore these guidlines and allow the stuff to grow within a few yards of their homes.  I really believe Californians need to be more prevention oriented.  Follow the guidelines and add many extra yards to it. I realize this won't stop all homes from being in danger, but it will definitely help.  I'd think insurance companies would even give incentives for lower premiums if people would go above the call of what is recommended.  Especially when you consider how expensive homes are now days in Calif..  A litte extra muscle applied once a year could mean saving ones home.  Even if you hired it out and it cost $500-$1,000 to have a good distance cleared from your home that would be significantly better than going through the hassel of losing it.

 

In response I can say that many homeowners have tried to cut a defensable space and been stopped by Environmental Officials (don't want to destroy the environment of an endangered frog, or wren). Homeowners can not cut areas in canyons that are NOT owned by the homeowner or "destroy" open green spaces, some of which have not been cleared in 25 years of undergrowth. Creating defensable space is VERY POLITICAL here. Few homeowners own enuff land that the guidelines can be followed by them. I personally have only 3/4 of an acre and still have to negotiate with my neighbors to insure guideline defensable space is  provided. And ONE tree within the space is too much. Fire was jumping rooftop to rooftop so what defensable space would be enuff ?

There seems to be (and mind you I say "seems to be") a policy in Fire Protection and Government : to not protect neighborhoods AND let the fire burn where  it will. It became obvious by Monday noon that the official policy was to leave neighborhoods undefended and evacuated (more concerned about deaths than saving property). While I do applaud the heroic efforts of the fire crews, I wonder about the rules and judgement of the San Diego Office of Emergency Services. The destruction from these regular fires is rising and the reason is three fold: 1. lack of CONCENTRATED EFFORT at the very outset of a fire and 2.  the huge time lag before air attack gets involved in fire fighting.  3. The apparent attitude that private property is NOT VALUABLE.

Helos and airplanes grounded by government red tape when needed most:

http://sandiego.cox.net/cci/newsnational/national?_mode=view&_state=maximized&view=article&id=D8SGH4PO0&_action=validatearticle

Just my 2 centavos from the evacuated area of Escondido.

Some nut jobs arrested for arson:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20071025-0356-wst-californiawildfires-arson.html

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_212110928.shtml

http://cbs5.com/californiawire/CA--ArsonArrest/resources_news_html

Map of San Diego Burn areas and current fires:

http://www.sdcountyemergency.com/newsreleases/10252007_0230hrs_Evac_FirePerem_low72.pdf

Timing is everything. Someone may have gotten to close to a big illegal garden and needed a distraction.

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Arson arrested, but not for the original fires from what I can gather.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/25/national/main3409395.shtml

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(CM) theSuperPatriot said:

The news station right next to FoxNews I'm not sure what it is but the one who always personally cuts down Fox and especially Bill O'reilly, were really cutting down Fox last night cause Fox had said something about a 4 year old memo about Al Quada starting fires like that.  I wouldn't discount it right yet and there are supposed to be multiple unnatural hotspots.  I did go thru the big Oakland fire some years ago and they are plenty scarey no matter how they started.

I heard on the news today that the people or person who started the three fires in Irvine "knew what they were doing".  They knew just where to place the fires to take advantage of the canyon passes where the wind currents are the strongest, etc.   In other words, I guess, someone with experience.

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sparks3 said:

Gerald47 said:

VeeBee said:

Well now, remember, was it in AZ that fires were deliberately being set to distract the border patrol so that illegals could be smuggled across? Some of those fires are VERY close to the Mexican borders, and I saw on a CNN map today that there are now fires in mexico probably due to flying embers.

Heck, if that other thread is correct that you have a vanload of illegals stealing food/donations at qualcomm center meant for the refugees, then I would not put it past them to deliberately start fires to distract the border patrols from thousands more sneaking across the borders.

 

12 years ago I owned a house in Calif.. Many times there were fires in my neck of the country. The fire department has guidlines on how far to keep natural brush from your home to protect it. Many (a lot of) people ignore these guidlines and allow the stuff to grow within a few yards of their homes. I really believe Californians need to be more prevention oriented. Follow the guidelines and add many extra yards to it. I realize this won't stop all homes from being in danger, but it will definitely help. I'd think insurance companies would even give incentives for lower premiums if people would go above the call of what is recommended. Especially when you consider how expensive homes are now days in Calif.. A litte extra muscle applied once a year could mean saving ones home. Even if you hired it out and it cost $500-$1,000 to have a good distance cleared from your home that would be significantly better than going through the hassel of losing it.

 

In response I can say that many homeowners have tried to cut a defensable space and been stopped by Environmental Officials (don't want to destroy the environment of an endangered frog, or wren). Homeowners can not cut areas in canyons that are NOT owned by the homeowner or "destroy" open green spaces, some of which have not been cleared in 25 years of undergrowth. Creating defensable space is VERY POLITICAL here. Few homeowners own enuff land that the guidelines can be followed by them. I personally have only 3/4 of an acre and still have to negotiate with my neighbors to insure guideline defensable space is provided. And ONE tree within the space is too much. Fire was jumping rooftop to rooftop so what defensable space would be enuff ?

There seems to be (and mind you I say "seems to be") a policy in Fire Protection and Government : to not protect neighborhoods AND let the fire burn where it will. It became obvious by Monday noon that the official policy was to leave neighborhoods undefended and evacuated (more concerned about deaths than saving property). While I do applaud the heroic efforts of the fire crews, I wonder about the rules and judgement of the San Diego Office of Emergency Services. The destruction from these regular fires is rising and the reason is three fold: 1. lack of CONCENTRATED EFFORT at the very outset of a fire and 2. the huge time lag before air attack gets involved in fire fighting. 3. The apparent attitude that private property is NOT VALUABLE.

Just my 2 centavos from the evacuated area of Escondido.

Some nut jobs arrested for arson:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20071025-0356-wst-californiawildfires-arson.html

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_212110928.shtml

http://cbs5.com/californiawire/CA--ArsonArrest/resources_news_html

Map of San Diego Burn areas and current fires:

http://www.sdcountyemergency.com/newsreleases/10252007_0230hrs_Evac_FirePerem_low72.pdf

 

I used to clear it. No one ever said anything to me except the local fire dept. They were in my neighborhood one day going from home to home educating home owners. When they got to mine they said "good Job". I did have one outcropping of rocks with some natural manzanita and scrub oaks that I left as landscaping which they were a bit concerned about, but when I showed them that I cleaned off the dead branches and cleared it off the ground they then thougt it was okay. It wasn't very big any way but provided a buffer from the road and the back of my house. If people want to save heir homes maybe if a large group of them just went ahead and did the clearing the fine they might incur would be way way less than losing their homes, not to mention the inconveniences. I know, if you live even a reasonable distance from a large section of natural brush it can get very intense and rain down sparks, that along with the wind and extremely dry conditions won't save all homes. After I left that house about 4 years later they had a huge conflagration on Paradise Mtn. Many homes all around were destroyed, mine was still standing. So, people are asking for it if they leave brush growing too close.

Yeah, well the guy in the article I posted is a 'guatamalun national'... which I believe translates to illegal?

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I think that's exactly what it means - you know this arsonist has got to be an illegal. It just seems like a huge coincedence that all these fires were started at the same time, like a penchant for arson is contagious or something.

 The MSM has been acting REALLY weird, even for them. Illegals have been looting already, that's as predictable as seasonal rains where I live.

 

http://www.kpbs.org/news/local;id=9979

When I lived in Santa Clarita California it was called Canyon Country , and every time the wind blew some kid would start a fire . It is nothing new . The one guy on the news was saying briquette sized chunks were flying around like rockets . There is a natural plant which looks like a maguey plant but I believe most call it Yucca , which has tall stems with white flower pods . When these things catch fire it is like roman candles going off and the chunks are briquette size . My fence was charred many times and I set up sprinklers to keep it wet so it wouldn't burn . People have to do the extra if they want to continue living in the wild areas , or suffer the consequences . Terrorists are a concern but there are little hooligans when there aren't terrorists .

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                         The terrorists angle is very prevalent. Overheard many people talking about how this would make a very successful economy crippling attack.  The arson fires in Greece were spread out over a large area also I believe. 

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They're are arguing on Glenn Beck about whether it's terrorists or the Earth Liberation Front (ELF) which is an unorganized group that targets areas that 'abuse the earth', according to the guy he's talking to.

Theories are floating all over the place.

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Investigations of arson take years literally and we may never know the real causes. "The wind snapped power lines." "Transformers on a wind swept pole exploded ." are the suspected causes in SD news today, inspite of the number of suspected arsonists already caught by police. Everything is speculation until investigation is complete. HOWEVER, we know that terrorists would and easily could do this.

speakengl said:

They're are arguing on Glenn Beck about whether it's terrorists or the Earth Liberation Front (ELF) which is an unorganized group that targets areas that 'abuse the earth', according to the guy he's talking to.

Theories are floating all over the place.

 

ELF is considered an 'internal' terrorist group, and groups like PETA are on the verge of being considered the same.  I believe most of the 'officials' of ELF have arrest warrents out on them and are being chased by the FBI for causing many fires in new housing developments (some outside of the Seattle area) and research labs (one at the U of W in Seattle) and firebombing car lots in Portland, OR etc, nasty group of people, both ELF and PETA!   We don't have to worry necessairly about outside terrorists starting fires, we have our own internal ones more than willing to do it!

PETA has not firebombed anything yet, but has had their president go on record as saying if she could save animals  from human "enslavement", ie being pets, by killing people, she would do it in a heartbeat!  Where the h*ll do these nut jobs come from???????

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sparks3 said:

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Helos and airplanes grounded by government red tape when needed most:

 

Well I don't think one can blame them for grounding the planes and helos on that one day, with wind gusts up to 100 mph, you can't fly those things down low where needed in that kind of weather, just can't.  If one of them goes down anyway, you have another huge fire started.

I am in awe as it is with those DC-10 pilots who would continually bring those huge, lumbering converted passenger jets down to just about treetop level and drop their load of pink fire retardant and then have to PULL UP, PULL UP!!  Heck, that would make me have to change pants on an hourly basis!  Can't imagine the thermals caused by those fires and canyons, along with the 60-70 mph wind gusts, how they must have been rocking and rolling in those DC-10's!  Brave people for sure!

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VeeBee said:

sparks3 said:

.

Helos and airplanes grounded by government red tape when needed most:

 

Well I don't think one can blame them for grounding the planes and helos on that one day, with wind gusts up to 100 mph, you can't fly those things down low where needed in that kind of weather, just can't.  If one of them goes down anyway, you have another huge fire started.

I am in awe as it is with those DC-10 pilots who would continually bring those huge, lumbering converted passenger jets down to just about treetop level and drop their load of pink fire retardant and then have to PULL UP, PULL UP!!  Heck, that would make me have to change pants on an hourly basis!  Can't imagine the thermals caused by those fires and canyons, along with the 60-70 mph wind gusts, how they must have been rocking and rolling in those DC-10's!  Brave people for sure!

apparently you did not read paragraph # 3 of article, so I have nothing more to add.