Stopping the fence

FloraC77 said: ...They are refusing to give access to their land.

Mayors in Brownsville, Del Rio and  and El Paso have denied access to some parts of their city property, turning away federal employees assigned to begin surveys or conduct other preliminary work on the fence meant to keep out illegal immigrants.  ...

Some of us oppose the border fence because it will become, if built, ineffective.  It also is NOT the hallmark of a FREE society.  Interior enforcement and employer sanctions are the ONLY effective ways to end the problem of illegal immigration.

Having said that, eminent domain is a valid legal reason for the Federal Government and other state entities, to obtain land put to PUBLIC use, as opposed to recent land seizures that benefit narrow commercial interests.  The Trans-Texas Corridor appears to be one that would benefit many commercial interests while compromising national security.  The politicos in Brownsville, Del Rio and El Paso would be in favor of the latter, which shows where their loyalties are.

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Some of us know that fences, walls, locked doors, and gates are for those who do not follow laws.  Yes, The employer sanctions must be upheld as well.   Laws,  all Laws need to be enforced but the fence is necessary.  It would stand to reason the if 5 or 10 % of the total amount of invading illegals defeated the wall/fence that the cost associated with chasing down, prosecuting and incarcerating or deporting would be far less.  Remember, a country without an enforcable border is not a country. Period.

We absolutely need to stop susidizing illegal aliens with taxpayer money but we also have a right to decide who comes in and for what reason. Two different progreams , both necessary.   We don't need a jailbreak at the border everyday like we have in my state of Arizona.  REAL FENCE not some virtual fence, NOW.  

 

Does anyone think that there is a possibility that the old Governor of Texas George W. Bush may have made a few phone calls to the mayors who wet their pants over an opportunity to help stall this very effective border fence and please "W's" cronies ? 

TG  

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Well, obviously in my history of life, none of the politicians have had any interest in this immigration problem, that's why it's gotten worse and worse.  I just find it hard to understand why they can't hear us, guess they must be like kids (or my husband)  .  It's like talking to "the wall" which doesn't exist. The company I was working for back in 1974 was raided by the feds.  The plant was full of them, and they scattered everywhere. You should have seen the vestibule the day I applied for the job in '73, I wanted to turn around and run.

Read an article yesterday in my Human Events that the mayor of Windsor Canada is now blaming the US for it's illegal immigrations problem of 200.  Some Haitian immigrant in Florida is selling info and applications for them to head north of the border. What a mess.  I see so many of them here in Middle Tennessee now, I find myself seething at times.  And there really aren't farm workers needed here.  So, I don't know what jobs they are doing that I can't do.

 

Tommygarage said:

Some of us know that fences, walls, locked doors, and gates are for those who do not follow laws.  Yes, The employer sanctions must be upheld as well. ... 

It certainly appears that you diminish the value of employer sanctions, though noone with such a view ever seems willing to articulate exactly why. Jailed employers do not employ illegals.  Unemployed illegals go home, which, for them is not the United States, and their homeward journey is not a taxpayer subsidized experience.

It will be assumed that you work for somebody else, at this point, although that is, indeed, a stretch.  That being the case, how do you think your interests are protected by allowing a co-worker to be competing for your job as an illegal alien?  That is exactly what is going on in ever growing numbers across the United States.  Illegally hired employees cannot expect fair treatment from those they work for, and threrefore are much valued by employers because it dramatically lowers their overhead costs.  Allowing this to continue, by the false security of a border fence, lowers our living standards continuously over time, and will make the majority of us slaves to corporate/globalist interests.

Dwight David Eisenhower, using the Operation Wetback policy, ridded the country of over a million illegals WITHOUT a border fence.  The fact that he did not even consider a fence may be because, unlike many currently who discuss this problem, he understood only too well its threat to a free society.  Also, Eisenhower certainly cannot be accused of mirroring the thinking of those from states within the interior, as he was also from a border state.

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Tommygarage said:

Some of us know that fences, walls, locked doors, and gates are for those who do not follow laws.  Yes, The employer sanctions must be upheld as well.  

Things are bad here in GA, I can't imagine what it must be like in the border states.

 

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About 7 years ago I and my 3 children were manufacturing plastic hangers in North Carolina(for about 6 months)  We worked out of another mfg plant.  We operated just two machines(which half the time one didn't even work)  The immigrants were brought in by the temporary employment van every morning and then picked up at the end of the day.  We used a few of them, but found out we could do better by ourselves.  So, for anyone to say they do the work the white man won't, we did it, AND we did it better. We had to keep the molds going 24/7 to make anything.  Most of the time they did work by just sitting at a machine as the product was dumped into a box. I do not believe that the owner of the company actually new what was going on in his plant.  There was a battle for power at the management level, that is why we lost out and the owner ended up losing it all. 

But one thing my daughter reminded me of was a sign in the ladies bathroom about where to put the toilet paper when used.  We talk about this experience with the hangers quite a bit. 

Employers, Employers... said:

Tommygarage said:

Some of us know that fences, walls, locked doors, and gates are for those who do not follow laws.  Yes, The employer sanctions must be upheld as well. ... 

It certainly appears that you diminish the value of employer sanctions, though noone with such a view ever seems willing to articulate exactly why. Jailed employers do not employ illegals.  Unemployed illegals go home, which, for them is not the United States, and their homeward journey is not a taxpayer subsidized experience.

It will be assumed that you work for somebody else, at this point, although that is, indeed, a stretch.  That being the case, how do you think your interests are protected by allowing a co-worker to be competing for your job as an illegal alien?  That is exactly what is going on in ever growing numbers across the United States.  Illegally hired employees cannot expect fair treatment from those they work for, and threrefore are much valued by employers because it dramatically lowers their overhead costs.  Allowing this to continue, by the false security of a border fence, lowers our living standards continuously over time, and will make the majority of us slaves to corporate/globalist interests.

Dwight David Eisenhower, using the Operation Wetback policy, ridded the country of over a million illegals WITHOUT a border fence.  The fact that he did not even consider a fence may be because, unlike many currently who discuss this problem, he understood only too well its threat to a free society.  Also, Eisenhower certainly cannot be accused of mirroring the thinking of those from states within the interior, as he was also from a border state.

  Employers,

  I do not diminish employer sanctions and the reasons you state are exactly why.    I included those laws as those that should be enforced strictly. 

 

I own a small licensed contracting company and do the work myself and at times use part time english-speaking labor.  They have other jobs as well which I schedule installs around.  I have never nor would ever hire an illegal alien.  It is a matter of principle.  I hate competing with other contractors using cheap illegal labor.   It is unfair to those who follow the rules.

Now that you know I am on board with your entire sanction program understand this.

 The pro-illegal politicians are against a real and effective border fence for the same reason an umpire hates instant replay.  It takes some or all of the decision out of his hands.  I DO NOT TRUST Homeland Security, The President or all of the cockroaches who took an oath to defend the United States against invasion, draw a government paycheck we pay for and then cooperate in an illegal open border policy.  I have no faith in them to act responsibly so it's time for idiotproof solutions to be put in place.   

   A 24/7 Border Fence WILL slow the invasion while sanctions take their effect and the good news is it's not reliant on the politics of the day to get up the will to their jobs as required.  Would it not be wise to stop any further invasion first ?  The sanctions enforcement is not free anyway !  It will cost billions to implement thanks to the jerks in the federal goverment who turned a blind eye all these years.  The same ones who enable the illegals to supplement the cheap labor you speak of with our taxpayer dollars for food stamps, medical care, prescriptions, etc...

Let's at least stop the bleeding before we do a thorough physical checkup.  

Build a Double Wall Fence Now while going full force with the employer sanctions.  My sister stopped by yesterday from an all day work seminar on proper legal hiring to protect against violating the new law.  The instructors were employment attornys who were excited that the ninth circuit had delayed implementation of the new laws.  

  More proof that we need a Fence.    The judges and politicians were not nearly as arrogant about their responsibility to the taxpayers they serve in Eisenhowers day.  I doubt we would be debating whether or not illegals had any claim to the treasure of this nation.   If the politicians act like children in a tantrum let's treat them as such.  Big Nasty Fence Now.  Then we can vote the losers out and get some sanity back into the American job market.   

Respectfully yours,

TG 

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Applause, Applause Tommy! My family works construction and those who employ illegals are laughing all the way to the bank.

Additionally, I have Great neighbors and I also have a FENCE! I garden, have a pond, gazebo, beautiful flowers they all make positive comments on. Some of my neighbors want us to take down the fence....they will help mow, etc. Well, I like my fence. My yard is my property and my gazebo is mine...I don't want to come home from work and have them sitting on my property. They are welcome any time as long as I INVITE them. I have great neighbors, but I like my property being mine. That being said, I understand the concerns about eminent domain, but we need the fence! Any deterrent to the invasion is beneficial to us all. We need the fence, humans monitering the fence and all the technology we can use.

We have to pursue the employers of the illegals. They are one magnet that draws more in. In the same regard is our government delivering handout after handout that is drawing them here. We need the fence to slow them down until we can vote the traitors out of office.  

 

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 This year I've been involved in activism as never before, and seems I am now bombarded especially in the illegal immigrant department.  I have signed petitions, sent e-mails, etc. I surely did not want to have wasted my time (or pestering my representatives) fighting for the fence if it wasn't a useful tool.  If I could, I would  go so far as to volunteer for the Minute Men.

We have to start somewhere.  My husband managed in manufacturing for 32 years.  I would say, 95% of his employees have been hard working American men and women.  It irritates me terrbily when they say they are doing the jobs the Americans(or white men) don't want.  I see plenty of Americans doing all kinds of things to make a living. My son has been serving up food all his life, his way out was to enlist in the Marines. AND he's been making just enough to live on, no welfare, or medicaid.

When police round them up, it's illegal, and some lawyer takes their side and sues. I truely believe without the fence the states are going to have to get tough on their own.  Wondering, can the states on the border work to build the fence through their states if they so desire without Federal input?  If the Feds want to pay for it, let them give the money to the states that want the fence, and let them hire hard working Americans to help built it. OR would it get done faster hiring ALL the illegals to build it cheaply and faster(since there are so many)? 

FloraC77 said:

 

round them up, it's illegal, and some lawyer takes their side and sues. I truely believe without the fence the states are going to have to get tough on their own.  Wondering, can the states on the border work to build the fence through their states if they so desire without Federal input?  If the Feds want to pay for it, let them give the money to the states that want the fence, and let them hire hard working Americans to help built it. OR would it get done faster hiring ALL the illegals to build it cheaply and faster(since there are so many)? 

  Flora,

   Those are great points.  Makes me wonder why a contract to build a " high Tech Barrier " or Virtual Fence was given to Boeing.  Not that they will need much labor to poke 1800 holes in the ground to stand poles up.

Boeing moved a good portion of the American jobs that used to be in Washington state over to China to buiild major components for airliners way back during the initial early 90's Bush/Clinton NAFTA job export era. 

    If you ask me about environmental concerns, what looks better: a mere 12' high double wall or a row of high poles running along the horizon ? ?  I can't think of any time when I thought long runs of power poles and lines running across unspoiled ( before the illegal trains ) desert wilderness looked great. 

The politicians use everything to subvert our will and spend our money.

VOTE !

 

TG

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integrity said:

Applause, Applause Tommy! My family works construction and those who employ illegals are laughing all the way to the bank.

Additionally, I have Great neighbors and I also have a FENCE! I garden, have a pond, gazebo, beautiful flowers they all make positive comments on. Some of my neighbors want us to take down the fence....they will help mow, etc. Well, I like my fence. My yard is my property and my gazebo is mine...I don't want to come home from work and have them sitting on my property. They are welcome any time as long as I INVITE them. I have great neighbors, but I like my property being mine. That being said, I understand the concerns about eminent domain, but we need the fence! Any deterrent to the invasion is beneficial to us all. We need the fence, humans monitering the fence and all the technology we can use.

We have to pursue the employers of the illegals. They are one magnet that draws more in. In the same regard is our government delivering handout after handout that is drawing them here. We need the fence to slow them down until we can vote the traitors out of office.  

 

 

  I second all of that !

TG

Lets get those concrete trucks rolling south ! ;-)

 

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Employers, Employers... said:

FloraC77 said: ...They are refusing to give access to their land.

Mayors in Brownsville, Del Rio and  and El Paso have denied access to some parts of their city property, turning away federal employees assigned to begin surveys or conduct other preliminary work on the fence meant to keep out illegal immigrants.  ...

Some of us oppose the border fence because it will become, if built, ineffective.  It also is NOT the hallmark of a FREE society.  Interior enforcement and employer sanctions are the ONLY effective ways to end the problem of illegal immigration.

Having said that, eminent domain is a valid legal reason for the Federal Government and other state entities, to obtain land put to PUBLIC use, as opposed to recent land seizures that benefit narrow commercial interests.  The Trans-Texas Corridor appears to be one that would benefit many commercial interests while compromising national security.  The politicos in Brownsville, Del Rio and El Paso would be in favor of the latter, which shows where their loyalties are.

 

The fence will be very effective and that's why you don't want it.

We are not looking for hallmarks of a free society.  We don't have a free society because we are being forced -- FORCED to take in illegal aliens.

You know interior enforcement and employer sanctions are the only way to end the problem --  I don't agree.

The Trans-Texas corridor will not benefit the average American and it will benefit many commercial interests -- which is what it's about.

Yes, we see where the loyalties of the politicos are and where yours are too.

Do you really write in flowery twists and turns, jumps and starts, or is it contrived to confound? 

My opinion and Ann Coulters:  BUILD THE DAMN FENCE! 

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                       Build the Fence!!!!!!    Crack down on employers that violate our laws!!!!!!!  We are facing a multi-pronged attack and need a multi-pronged defense.  A fence to slow them down, more Border Patrol agents properly equipped to apprehend them, and punishment for those that facilitate their continued violation of our laws.  A nation without distinct secure borders isn't much of a nation.

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When we get this fence finished(I heard somewhere at the rate they are going it will be 400 years).  It isn't going to be the Berlin Wall, where no one can enter.  There are legal "Border Crossings" as along the northern border, which law abiding citizens may enter to spend quality time.  They can cross to work (as along the northern border), shop, vacation and then return home.  Perhaps us immigration reform people should point out to the neat and orderly relationship we have had with the northern border.  Of course it is not perfect, but it has worked pretty well.  I lived on the last northern crossing of Washington state (Blaine) for a bit.  Working at that border was my sanity, I managed an espresso stand.  The only time it didn't work so well, is when it was backed up.  But as the southern border, the northern doesn't have much respect for us either, I learned that very well living out there. But I got to know some of the border and customs agents.  I know that hated when they had to go south.

So people who aren't fence entusiasts, shouldn't worry that we will close off the country  to the possibilty of entry.  As with a leaky dike, you have to plug the hole, let out some of the water, then fix it permanently.

In reading this - I see those who are "fence sitters" and cannot take a firm stance on all fronts (they want to leave at least one open for an excuse)  and those who 'want' to be more firm but are afraid of the PC crowd calling them names and then those who can make up their own minds and carry through with action.

We have border crossings where people are monitored and must have permission to enter.  There needs be NO other way for them to enter this country. Right now I cannot remember which founding father who gave a very pertinent quote (maybe one of you can remember who said it)  - - but the man said that if a people have no secure borders - they have NO nation.  I believe that is true.  Guess where that leaves us right now.

When my family was discussing this problem and how to make the fence "do it's job effectively" more than one of them said the same thing.  We build a double fence, 12 ft tall and the land in between the two lines  - we MINE.  Not too many would broach that and after one or two met a mine and lost  - - others might get the message.  Instead of Minutemen with no guns on the borders,  we put armed militia on the border with orders to shoot anyone trying to cross and breaking our laws in so doing.

Personally I would far rather see these Criminals get shot while they are committing the crime than wait and have a war within the country  and see my grandchildren of "legal Mexican ancestry" get shot because they 'look Mexican'.  We need to use some brains.

And we definitely need to stop all the magnets that draw the Criminal Invaders to this country - - emplopyment, free medical, welfare, free education, free social security - - in short - STOP THE HANDOUTS!

Then we need to deal with the traitors.  Those employers who cared so little for this country that they took advantage of both sides 'just to make a buck' - - our elected officials who have and are selling out this country and destroying our nation.  They all need dealt with as the traitors that they are. 

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Patriot's Pixie said:

In reading this - I see those who are "fence sitters" and cannot take a firm stance on all fronts (they want to leave at least one open for an excuse)  and those who 'want' to be more firm but are afraid of the PC crowd calling them names and then those who can make up their own minds and carry through with action.

We have border crossings where people are monitored and must have permission to enter.  There needs be NO other way for them to enter this country. Right now I cannot remember which founding father who gave a very pertinent quote (maybe one of you can remember who said it)  - - but the man said that if a people have no secure borders - they have NO nation.  I believe that is true.  Guess where that leaves us right now.

When my family was discussing this problem and how to make the fence "do it's job effectively" more than one of them said the same thing.  We build a double fence, 12 ft tall and the land in between the two lines  - we MINE.  Not too many would broach that and after one or two met a mine and lost  - - others might get the message.  Instead of Minutemen with no guns on the borders,  we put armed militia on the border with orders to shoot anyone trying to cross and breaking our laws in so doing.

Personally I would far rather see these Criminals get shot while they are committing the crime than wait and have a war within the country  and see my grandchildren of "legal Mexican ancestry" get shot because they 'look Mexican'.  We need to use some brains.

And we definitely need to stop all the magnets that draw the Criminal Invaders to this country - - emplopyment, free medical, welfare, free education, free social security - - in short - STOP THE HANDOUTS!

Then we need to deal with the traitors.  Those employers who cared so little for this country that they took advantage of both sides 'just to make a buck' - - our elected officials who have and are selling out this country and destroying our nation.  They all need dealt with as the traitors that they are. 

AMEN !!!

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I believe that the people who are blocking the production of the fence are the very prople it is designed to keep out. It stands to reason that there would be a large body of illegals along the border areas wanting to keep that area open for more illegals. However, the Government has the authority to claim any properties it deems necessary in order to erect the fence. I for one am sick and tired of paying taxes in order to support those either too lazy to work, those whom would rather slither into this country illegally and not go through proper channels and those who would rather see us all destroyed. I don't believe that throwing money at all of these problems will ever inspire the desired results. Close off the borders, stop feeding everyone elses hungry and start taking care of our own. There are plenty of opportunities right here, hunger, medical, etc. If the government wants to pay down the national debt, it should try keeping our money at home for a change.

BUILD THE FENCE

 

1)  As a sovereign nation (maybe for the moment) we should be allowed to pick and choose who enters this country.

2)  We should pick the best.

3)  The basis for allowing immigrants in should not be the fact they live next door and can pop over whenever they want.

    The basis should not be that Mexico cannot support Mexicans and uses the      U.S. as an overflow valve for Mexico's poor. 

    The basis should not be NAFTA/SPP agreements that tie us to Mexico.

    The basis should not be corporations insatiable desire for cheap labor. 

 

 BUILD THE FENCE.  BUILD THE DOUBLE FENCE AS REQUIRED.

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There are too many on the side of fence building to respond to separately.

Therefore, let it just be stated THAT YOU ARE WRONG.

It has been reported that only 17 miles of fence have been built by a reporter who regularly visits the area and gives the specifics on progress.  Therefore, the Feds are playing the same game with the fence that they are playing with interior enforcement.  They are dragging their feet and worse.  The portions of the fence that have been built are compromised by having holes cut in them, as they are only chain link portions.  Other parts have been described as being like the barriers on the beach at Normandy, where the illegal aliens just attach a chain to them and drag an opening using a truck.

Apparently, when you speak of a "fence" you have no idea what you are getting.  If honest employers and employees have criminal illegal alien employers dragged into court under RICO statutes the outcome is a lot more certain, and the result spreads like ripples of a stone thrown into a pond to other criminals in the employment arena.  It's all about money.  It's about money for the illegal aliens, and it's about money for the criminal employers.  The employers are the magnet, and there are only 10's of thousands of them to go after, while there are 12+ million illegal aliens.

Anyone who has been damaged by this onslaught needs to contact FAIR to get a court date to have these bast**** thrown in jail and fined out of business.  No more of these paper tiger Internet arguments.  And no more criminal illegal alien employers posing as anti-illegal alien types.

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