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Income Tax ----- Could This Case Kill It?

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July 26, 2007 01:36 PM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
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February 13, 2007
IRS loses challenge to prove tax liability
Lawyer is acquitted after arguing income levy lacks legal foundation
Posted: July 26, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Bob Unruh
© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com

The http://www.irs.gov/localcontacts/inde... face="Times New Roman" color="#0000ff">Internal Revenue Service has lost a lawyer's challenge in front of a jury to prove a constitutional foundation for the nation's income tax, and the victorious attorney now is setting his sights higher.

"I think now people are beginning to realize that this has got to be the largest fraud, backed up by intimidation and extortion and by the sheer force of taking peoples property and hard-earned money without any lawful authorization whatsoever," lawyer Tom Cryer told WND just days after a jury in Louisiana acquitted him of two criminal tax counts.

And before you consign him to the legions of "tin foil hat brigades" who argue against paying taxes, and then want payment to explain how to do that, he addresses the issue up front.

"These snake oil peddlers have conned millions of dollars out of many well-intended patriots and left a trail of broken lives in their wake. … These charlatans should be avoided, not only because they will lead you to bankruptcy and prison, but because by association they discredit those who are telling the truth," he said.

The truth, he said, is where he comes in, with the launch of a new http://www.truthattack.org/"> face="Times New Roman" color="#0000ff">Truth Attack website that is intended to build on his victory, and create a coalition of resources to defeat – ultimately – the income tax in the United States.

Although the legal citations in the case tend to run the length of paragraphs, Cryer told WND the underlying issue is not that complicated. Essentially, he argued that income is not necessarily any money that comes to a person, but rather categories such as profit and interest.

He said the free exchange of labor for compensation has been upheld as a right by the Supreme Court, but that doesn't necessarily make the compensation income.

If ever such an argument were to be presented widely, Cryer said, the income to the federal government would plummet. But not to worry, he said, the expenses could be reduced equally by eliminating programs, departments and agencies that also have no foundation in the Constitution.

"The Founding Fathers intentionally restricted the taxing powers of the new federal government as a measure of restraint on its size. By exceeding that limited taxing authority the federal government has been able to obtain resources beyond its intended reach, and that money has enabled the federal government to exceed its authority," he said.

For example, he said, the Constitution does not empower the federal government to regulate education, or employment, and agriculture, yet it does so.

The jury in U.S. District Court in Louisiana voted 12-0 to find Cryer, of Shreveport, not guilty of failure to file income taxes for two years. He had been indicted in 2006 on charges of failing to pay $73,000 to the IRS in 2000 and 2001. The next step in his personal case will be up to the IRS and prosecutors, if they choose to continue the issue, he said.

But for the rest of the nation, he's working with http://www.save-a-patriot.org/"> color="#0000ff">Save-a-Patriot, http://freeenterprisesociety.com/"> color="#0000ff">the Free Enterprise Society, http://www.livefreenow.org/"> color="#0000ff">Live Free Now and his own http://www.gcstation.net/liefreezone/... color="#0000ff">Lie Free Zone to spread the message of the truth.

"There are three points that are important," he told WND. "There's no law making the average working man liable [for income taxes], there's no law or regulation that allows the IRS to contend that earnings are 100 percent profit received in exchange for nothing, and the right to earn a living through any lawful occupation is a constitutionally protected fundamental right, and it is exempt from taxation."

Spokesman Robert Marvin in Washington's IRS office told WND the Internal Revenue Code provides for taxation on salaries or wages, but when pressed for a specific citation, or constitutional provision, he said, "I can't comment."

Cryer's encounter with tax law began more than a decade ago when a friend told him the income tax was sham. Cryer started researching, hoping to keep his friend out of trouble. But his conclusions, after years of research, were exactly what his friend told him.

He researched not only tax laws, but also the documents pertaining to the drafting of the U.S. Constitution as well as the first income tax.

He said throughout his battle, he's offered at every turn to pay taxes if the IRS could show him the authorization, and that never has happened.

"The Criminal Investigation Division and Department of Justice both responded only with 'your position is frivolous.' I had never stated a position, so how could they know whether it was frivolous?" he said. "Imagine my sending you a bill for $1,000 and when you call me and ask what the bill was for I simply said, 'that position is frivolous, just write the check and send it in.'"

His acquittal, he said, was a precedent because it means "people can see and recognize the truth."

He said multiple Supreme Court opinions have affirmed an individual's ownership of his or her own labor, and "exercising your fundamental rights" is not taxable. "It is definitely a trade. What most people receive in the form of wages, salaries or in my case fees that they personally earned for their labor is not received in exchange for nothing."

He said there might be a profit that should be taxable, but there might not.

"The IRS lets Wal-Mart sell a trillion dollars worth of goods, but they can back out their cost of goods [before being taxed,]" he said. "The IRS considers, in the case of a Wal-Mart wage earner, 100 percent of what he takes in is profit."

"But he's using his life, energy and work lifespan, and depleting it as he goes," Cryer told WND. "[Working] is a God-given fundamental right that is protected under the Constitution and can't be taxed any more than exercising freedom of speech."

While he waits to see what, if anything, the IRS and Justice Department will do next in his case, he's working to coordinate the groups that are battling taxation as unconstitutional.

"I have started a campaign to unify [the work] and we've got a number of organizations that are sponsoring and supporting this campaign," he said. The goal is to get everyone "who is aware of the truth" organized so they can spread the word.

He warned without a restoration of constitutional basics, the nation is lost.

"Read your Constitution and you will see that the federal role does not include ANY authority to regulate or tax any citizen directly and that WE expressly reserved the right to rule and govern ourselves as States, not as mere political subdivisions," his website says.

"The Constitution does not allow the government to run your lives, but the money it is stealing from millions of Americans is the fuel for its over-reaching and kibitzing. Take the money back and we and our states and communities can again be free," he said.

The fight is over "our FREEDOM from rule by a DISTANT RULER, just as we fought to free ourselves of a distant England over 200 years ago," he said.

July 26, 2007 02:53 PM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
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February 16, 2007
According to America: Freedom to Fascism, the Income tax doesn't even pay for anything useful.  It supposedly goes toward reducing the national debt, but the report it gave said that 1.3 trillion dollars were "lost" one year.

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July 26, 2007 03:18 PM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
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That's right, dyne. I watched that movie too. $1.3 trillion dollars simply "lost".  How does one LOSE $1.3 trillion?  I mean, didn't these guys look

under the couch? Obviously, government is incapable of managing OUR money, so let's abolish taxes.
July 26, 2007 04:32 PM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
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February 5, 2007
It must be in the freezers.

TEXAS: One of the few states that can secede from the Union.
July 26, 2007 05:50 PM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
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March 29, 2007

 

Yea!!! The FairTax!!! The only way!!! 



Rayj
First you're born, you pay taxes, you die.
Then your next of kin has to pay more taxes
on your funeral! How fair is that?

http://www.fairtax.org
FairTax Calculator!

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July 26, 2007 07:28 PM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
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March 22, 2007
    Doesn't the money go towards paying the interest on the national debt which is owed to the FRB - that would be much like pouring water into a well.
August 6, 2007 03:39 PM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
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God Bless the Honorable and Noble Tom Cryer, ONE OF THE GREATEST HEROES AND PATRIOTS of our day!  Here's a toast to you, TOM!

I was innocently doing my taxes this year and wanted to check, innocently, into a few questions I had.  I dug and dug.  I started completely freaking out the more I checked into these things.  My multitudes of hours and days of research concluded exactly what Tom's case found by a Jury of his peers.

The only thing I would add is that THE FEDERAL RESERVE is completely controlling everything us and the U.S. Government.  Every nickel, according to the 1985 Grace Commission Report, who was assigned by President Reagan to find out where all our tax money goes, goes directly to THE FEDERAL RESERVE.   Every dollar that our Government uses is borrowed, at the good graces of THE FEDERAL RESERVE. The Federal Reserve is a Private Corporation owned by just a few handfuls of private individuals, most of whom are from over seas.  Also, just to get you to feel like Alice tumbling through the rabbit-hole, all the dollars you spend and 'you thought' bought things with are 'FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES' as it shows right on the bills in your wallet, look for yourself.  These are NOTES!  International DEBT instruments.  They are worth about 4 or so cents each.  SO WHO REALLY OWNS EVERYTHING YOU BOUGHT OVER YOUR LIFETIME?

Welcome to the Matrix.  If every nickel you send out or is take from you in withholding for Income Taxes goes directly to THE FEDERAL RESERVE, and none of it goes to the Government, than who does the IRS really work for?  Remember the 'Agents' in the Matrix?  Remember the power they had?  Ironically this does not fall far from the truth.

By accepting what we are told and experience life can be easier. There is the social pressure to 'fit in', which is immensely strong in most cultures. Questioning the status quo, The Matrix, The FEDERAL RESERVE System, carries the danger of ostracism, possibly persecution. This aspect has a strong link with politics. People doing well under the current system are not inclined to look favourably on those who question the system. Morpheus says to Neo "You have to understand that many people are not ready to be unplugged, and many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it."
August 15, 2007 05:14 PM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
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how about a classaction lawsuit against the government for perpetuating this fraud upon us and for continuing to perpetuate it, indoctrinating kids into it throught the course of their education. seems that a case like that would be worth trillions upon trillions. this has been going on since 1913. it's time it stopped. maybe we could find some good lawyers with the gigantic dollar signs to file such a suit..

PRESS 1 FOR ENGLISH.. Prensa 2 a desconectar hasta que aprendes Inglés !!!
August 15, 2007 05:34 PM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
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February 13, 2007
zman61 said: how about a classaction lawsuit against the government for perpetuating this fraud upon us and for continuing to perpetuate it, indoctrinating kids into it throught the course of their education. seems that a case like that would be worth trillions upon trillions. this has been going on since 1913. it's time it stopped. maybe we could find some good lawyers with the gigantic dollar signs to file such a suit..

 

That is a really great idea.  However, when I wonder why something has not been done that seems so obvious it is usually for a good reason.  In this case it is probably for a bad reason.

Sue Uncle Sam

SovereignMan
August 15, 2007 11:58 PM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
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February 6, 2007
you'd be dead before the trial more than likely

PRESS 1 FOR ENGLISH.. Prensa 2 a desconectar hasta que aprendes Inglés !!!
August 19, 2007 06:11 PM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
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Interesting guys!  Certainly there is a lawsuit here.  But the question becomes if the FEDERAL RESERVE NOTEs are really borrowed money, with only the promise to pay sometime in the future, and even then not worth more than about four cents or so each, than what could they pay us with?

I would demand Gold or else silver, PERIOD!Actually I think, but I am not sure on this, the Congress, who are the real culprits in this matter, passed some law that the Government can not be  sued.

 
August 21, 2007 07:17 PM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
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March 6, 2007
SovereignMan said:
zman61 said: how about a classaction lawsuit against the government for perpetuating this fraud upon us and for continuing to perpetuate it, indoctrinating kids into it throught the course of their education. seems that a case like that would be worth trillions upon trillions. this has been going on since 1913. it's time it stopped. maybe we could find some good lawyers with the gigantic dollar signs to file such a suit..

 

That is a really great idea.  However, when I wonder why something has not been done that seems so obvious it is usually for a good reason.  In this case it is probably for a bad reason.

Sue Uncle Sam

SovereignMan

 

I have actually emailed Tom Cryer and asked him if he were to do a class action lawsuit could I be on that list.  Also, here is the weblink to Tom's 4 videos on this matter below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KjBy_...



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September 1, 2007 11:13 PM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
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August 31, 2007

Dramatic Development  

U.S. Court of Appeals Rules WTP Does
Not Have To Disclose Identities of Supporters

As previously reported, on August 9, 2007, federal District Court Judge Thomas McAvoy issued a Decision and Order that granted IRS's motion for a Summary Judgment permanently enjoining Schulz and WTP from certain activities including "assisting in the preparation of a document related to a matter material to the internal revenue laws."  

In addition, McAvoy ordered Schulz and WTP to turn over to the DOJ, by August 30, 2007, a list identifying all persons who have been provided "materials containing false information."  

On Wednesday, August 29, 2007, Bob Schulz traveled to Albany, NY where he filed a Notice of Appeal to the United States Court of Appeals from the Decision and Order issued on August 9th by federal District Court Judge Thomas McAvoy. Click here for a copy of the Notice of Appeal. Bob and WTP expect to reverse McAvoy's Decision and Order.

On Thursday morning, August 30, 2007, Bob Schulz traveled to Manhattan where he filed an Emergency Motion with the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit to prevent District Court Judge Thomas McAvoy and the DOJ from enforcing the terms of Judge McAvoy's August 9th Order, at least until the Second Circuit has reached a determination of the merits of the appeal from that Order. Click here for a copy of Bob's Memorandum of Law in support of the motion to stay the enforcement of the District Court's Order pending appeal. 

On Thursday, at 5 pm, the Emergency Judge on duty at the Second Circuit Court of Appeals, Judge Peter W. Hall, issued an Order preventing the enforcement of that part of McAvoy's Order "requiring production of identification information for the United States." Judge Hall then referred the motion by Bob and WTP for a stay of the entire order to a panel of three judges who will hear the motion for the Court of Appeals on September 18, 2007.

Please go to the WTP home page at www.GiveMeLiberty.org to access all the 6700 court pleadings and orders.


Although we are making slow but steady progress and are finally nearing the climactic judicial conclusion following several years of intense litigation that has been necessary to further our landmark constitutional issues and bring them before the nation's Highest Court, WTP is struggling financially.  Please consider a one-time or recurring monthly donation. Please know that every little bit helps.  It is not for want of will nor ideas that has slowed our battle -- only money.  Please remember your donations are our only source of funding.

Please also note that although WTP has shut down virtually all of its website content, our supporters can still join our e-Mail list,  donate, join the WTP Congress, and make Profile changes such as address, email, etc.

 

Our Home Page is www.GiveMeLiberty.org

September 8, 2007 10:48 AM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
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August 6, 2007
This Private Message was sent to you by Icon.   Hi Capt.... As you state, Social Security in a few years, is going to be a big problem. I see two options, raise taxes to 80%, or go to another economic system of some type.My question is, how long do you see things going, before something has to collaspe, or be changed? I am thinking within 10 years, but don't have a lot of info to go on.

Any other insight on this is welcome.

  

****************************************

  Dear Icon:  

I was concerned about this and thought it should have been ended in 1982 - 83.  At that time I tried to start an organization called F.A.I.R. which is an acronym for FAMILIES AGAINST IMMINENT ROBBERY.  Back then there just wasn't enough interest to get things hopping very well.  I guess people were too innured to "free" stuff for themselves and their parents.  "Free"  ya right!!  So the answer to your question how long do you see things going, before something has to collapse, or be changed, is at least twenty years ago.  We are far and away too deep in dodo to even ask that question anymore. 

  The only relevant questions at this point are:
  1. When is the Matrix (THE FEDERAL RESERVE & at least a huge part of our Government) going to collapse? 
  2. How is it going to collapse?
  3. How much financial pain will our fellow countrymen endure and how will it affect our lives?
 

The answer to number 1 is critical.  If we can somehow educate the people with regards to the hugely illegal completely unconstitutional actions of several Federal Government actions; specifically with regards to The Federal Reserve Act of 1913, the Federal Income Taxes, and the Merchant Marine Act of 1941 (a document signed in secret far out in the Atlantic aboard an American Navy vessel between F.D.R. and Winston Churchill) apart of which states that International companies can be taxed.  You see, Icon, although Federal Income Taxes, in there present form being “unapportioned” are completely illegal, they can tax any international entity that does business with in the United States of America.  Here is the kicker, the big trick, the scam on all of us:  As we know THE FEDERAL RESERVE who prints our so-called money is a PRIVATE ‘International’ organization comprised of a cartel of 12 banks, which are closely held by certain private individuals primarily from England.  This PRIVATE ‘INTERNATIONAL’ CORPORATION prints what, Icon?  They print FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE(s).  Look on any dollar bill of any denomination in your wallet right now.  Look for yourself what is printed on it.  Do you know what a ‘NOTE’ is?  A NOTE is a document of debt, in this case INTERNATIONAL DEBT.  If you use international debt instruments to pay for anything and everything you purchase, what by definition does that make you?  It makes you an “International Merchant” because you are buying and selling things with international debt instruments.  So, Icon, none of us people are people anymore.  We are International Merchants subject to the Law Merchant Agreement secretly signed by the Communist F.D.R. (thank you very much).  Since we are not People any more, as in We The People, in order to form a more perfect Union, etc., etc., etc. we are not protected nor do we have the power otherwise afforded to us under the Declaration of Independence nor the Constitution of the United States of America.  So bottom line;  IF We are not people, but International Merchants the Federal Government does have the right to tax us because we ARE NOT PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   I can’t tell you how much red I see when I even think about this BS!  WE ARE NOT PEOPLE!

 

But the good side to this fact is this:  The IRS (who do not work for the Government, but rather directly for the Private BIG International Corporation called The Federal Reserve, otherwise known as The Matrix; for how can the IRS really be working for the Government if the Government doesn’t get a plug nickel from us taxpayers, but rather The Matrix gets it directly – look on the back of your cancelled income tax check to see where it was directly deposited – It wasn’t the Treasury of our Government.  It went into the coffers of the Federal Reserve who is owned by a couple handfuls of dominate men)….  Well back to the main point:  The IRS has been loosing tax cases against several individuals because they can not produce the law to juries that shows where the Government has the legal authority to tax The People.  Why?  Because there is NO LAW!  The Constitution does not allow the Federal Government to apply direct ‘unapportioned’ taxes on citizens.  That is not me saying that, that is the Supreme Court in 1894.  The Government tried to change that with the (complete lie) that it was able to ratify the 16th Amendment (another story if you are interested).  Even though the 16th Amendment was never actually ratified (This is provable BTW), it doesn’t matter one iota because The Supreme Court in 1919 found that the 16th Amendment caused no new taxes on any entity that was not already taxed before it.  If they didn’t have the right to tax The People before the 16th Amendment and they didn’t have it after, than THERE IS NO RIGHT TO TAX  the average American individual.  THERE IS NO LAW! ! ! !   So many people in the last five years have been found innocent of tax evasion and failure to file, by a trial before their peers.

 

 Now, I just told you that We Are Not People anymore but rather International Merchants because we barter with International Debt Instruments called FEDERAL RESERVE NOTEs.  So they can tax us because all of us here living in our individual MATRIX vats, filled with some kind of financial slime that ‘allows’ us to subsist, are feeding the MATRIX with POWER and MONEY from the cords plugged into the back of our heads which, in turn, feeds us the illusion of what we ‘think’ we see, feel, touch, hear and smell, and how we perceive these things in our minds.  We are living in a world that really doesn’t exist.  We are being completely controlled every day, day in and day out, by the programming we get from the Matrix.  The IRS are the AGENTS of The Matrix, not unlike the AGENTS in the movie.  Well, Icon, what do you think is going to happen when it is reported in the news that not a single person in America is a person anymore?  What are all of us Americans going to think when the AGENTS bring up in court that we are not people but International Merchants subject to Law Merchant provisions?  And, therefore, additionally that we are not protected from the Government by The Constitution?  How do you spell R E V O L U T I O N ?  Or, perhaps, how does the Government spell MARSHAL LAW?  So the AGENTS are in a massive quandary.  They do have the right to tax us under the law, BECAUSE WE TECHNICALLY ARE NOT PEOPLE, but they fear bringing out the law in court.  So what is going to happen is more and more people, who are under the impression that they are a person (Do you thing you are you a person Icon?  If so, this proves conclusively that you are living in The Matrix, because you are not a person.), will start to challenge and win in court and not pay the Federal Income taxes that would be completely illegal if they were a person.

 

How does this all fit together you might ask me, Icon:  Well here it is:  If enough of us learn of the true nature of (non)life here in America with regards to The Matrix, our Federal Government, the Law above ALL Law as written in our founding documents – The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of The United States of America and basic principles of economics and the massive wealth generating machine of true INDIVIDUAL freedom for all PEOPLE of our fruited plain than we have a chance, just a chance we can avoid a Civil and/or Revolutionary War.  If we step down The Matrix (there is a might fine back out clause in The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 that allows us to get out for a relatively very small payback of our Governments original borrowings and just saying were done, good bye) and we FORCE Government to STRICTLY adhere to the VERY LETTER OF THE LAW as written in our founding documents,  the Federal Government will MASSIVELY shrink, our State Governments will significantly grow to take on the responsibilities that the Federal Government used to do, which is a good thing because we all INDIVIDUALLY have control over our State and local governments and state representatives and the fact that the States will then have to COMPETE for us and our money/resources and will do anything to make life better for us and our families because they need us(!) and if they don’t behave we will just move to a better State that makes it easier to live in freedom and MAKE MONEY (yeah, groovy, baby),  and, thereby, we will be able to KEEP our earnings.  BTW:  Our founding fathers determined that earnings are an equal exchange of property.  It is the equal exchange of our property of time, for that of other property represented by payment of any nature acceptable by both parties of the exchange.  Earnings are NOT income according to our founding fathers and just in simple logic.  The hundreds of pages of the Internal Revenue Service Code does not anywhere define Income, did you know that, Icon?  How do you report Income if even the IRS doesn’t know what Income is?  Scary finding out how deep the rabbit hole goes when you take the red pill, hey Icon?

 

Anyway back to how to pull our fellow countrymen back from the brink of WAR:   All the above is done.  Now we PEOPLE have all of what would have been our Federal Income Tax money.  Now what we do is donate, from our hearts, to a private HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY GOVERNMENT what-so-ever WEAN THE PEOPLE OFF OF SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE TRUST.  This trust is to be annually audited by SIX independent revolving accredited CPA firms.  Their audit report shall be placed on a website for every single person in America to access at any time night or day so that we can see how our money is being appropriated and the condition of the trust.  The trust shall have a DROP DEAD date that is irrevocable and shall be setup so that people dependent on these Communistic / Socialistic programs can be weaned off as gently as possible (we should all get a little out of what the massive amounts STOLEN FROM our paychecks but I am not sure that is possible).  If we do this, we have a very slim chance to avoid war.

 

Our people at www.GiveMeLiberty.org are working on this process right now.  We are headed toward battle against the Federal Government at The Supreme Court.  The Federal Government is trying to stop our legal battles at the lower courts so that the provisions in our founding documents can not be used against them.  Let’s hope We The People win this thing.  War is hell.  I am ready with my Second Amendment tools, but I pray earnestly that it will not come to that.  Let’s hope and donate to the cause of We The People in their court battle to prevent War!  For who can even subsist on only 10 – 20 percent of our paychecks?  This is almost certainly our last chance to avoid war.  You need to join, read and stay abreast of our court battle, Icon.  Tell other people of what you have learned.  It is vital to our country, our fellow countrymen and our children.  We do not have ten years, Icon.  In Ten to Fifteen years,  max, we will be at war, if not for our Freedom than simply for the right to have the financial ability to exist.

  

May God, bless us!
September 8, 2007 12:43 PM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
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February 13, 2007

Very interesting Capt Karl. 

What about the notion of suing The Matrix for taxes previously paid?  That amounts to theft by conversion, scheme to defraud, interstate racketering or something along those lines if the income tax as we know it is illegal. 

Seems there would be some trial lawyers lining up for that 2 Trillion dollar Fee.

Can we not see the forest for the trees.....

SovereignMan
September 8, 2007 01:36 PM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
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May 21, 2007
Comment updated September 9, 2007 11:58 AM
zman61 said: how about a classaction lawsuit against the government for perpetuating this fraud upon us and for continuing to perpetuate it, indoctrinating kids into it throught the course of their education. seems that a case like that would be worth trillions upon trillions. this has been going on since 1913. it's time it stopped. maybe we could find some good lawyers with the gigantic dollar signs to file such a suit..

 

Unfortunately as a sovereign, the government is very limited in its liability civilly or criminally. Ever hear of anybody suing a court for miscarriage of justice?
September 9, 2007 11:45 AM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
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August 6, 2007
SovereignMan said:

Very interesting Capt Karl. 

What about the notion of suing The Matrix for taxes previously paid?  That amounts to theft by conversion, scheme to defraud, interstate racketering or something along those lines if the income tax as we know it is illegal. 

Seems there would be some trial lawyers lining up for that 2 Trillion dollar Fee.

Can we not see the forest for the trees.....

SovereignMan

 

Well SovereignMan,   

I have thought about that and the issue of all of the money that has been stolen out of all our paychecks for year after year in the form of FICA and Medicare taxes that very many MILLIONS of us will never get back.  I believe we will just have to settle for getting back our freedom, forcing Government to behave and operate under the law that We The People created for it to operate with in, and keeping OUR money as those who forged our founding documents intended, so that government wouldn't get so big and, therfore, corrupt and so that we the people would be able to be in complete control of our INDIVIDUAL lives without the manipulations of an ever increasing Government headed toward absolute power, which will corrupt absolutely. 

 

I think that it has to be racked up to the price we will without doubt have to pay for our parents, grandparents and great grandparents (I am fifty years old) not doing their part to make sure that we were properly educated in the arena of freedom, Revolutionary history, Communist history (which has with in it the out right MURDER of ONE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE), Socialism history (the same thing as Communism), American heritage, unique American Culture and economics and how freedom from government, as our founding fathers wrote over and over, time and time again from their experience and very highly educated minds, is the best path for the average common individual to gain the most prosperity, success, wealth and happiness and why that is, as opposed to why government intervention or help / assistance always leads to Communist or Socialist programs that can not, have not ever in recorded history and will never ever EVER work over time.  In fact, not only can it never work over time, it always leads to corruption in government - just look at all the corruption in our government now as an example.  And, the more power that our Government illegally, as it is against the supreme laws of The Constitution, usurps from us INDIVIDUALS (Primarily through The Matrix (The Federal Reserve which is completely owned by just a few men who have the power and do completely run and control our Government because our Government has to, under the Federal Reserve System and Act of 1913, beg for every single penny they spend because our Income Tax money is not for our Federal Government and does not go to our Federal Government, it goes to The Matrix - THE FEDERAL RESERVE directly.  All your Income Tax money gets deposited DIRECTLY into the FEDERAL RESERVE coffers, which is a private company having absolutely nothing to do with our Government.  The IRS AGENTS, not unlike the AGENTS in the movie The Matrix, work directly for the PRIVATE company called The Federal Reserve - The Matrix, for how can they be working for the Federal Government if the Federal Government doesn't get a single nickel out of all the tax money they collect?         ...   ...   ...    The Matrix can say NO to our Governments request for Billions and Billions of dollars anytime they want because they are a private banking company just like any other bank except this cartel of 12 Banks are on steroids and have the power of The Matrix, again not unlike the movie.)) Back to the subject topic: We are going to have to pay the price for the lack of our ancestors to educate us in the subjects I write about above in this writing.  That is just the way it is.  I would suggest that we all go to our school boards ASAP and demand that they teach these things to junior high students and then again in more advanced classes to our junior and senior students.  THIS IS VITAL TO MAINTAIN OUR FREEDOM, PROSPERITY AND CULTURE FOR THE GENERATIONS!

  With all the debt that the Government has in Social Security and Medicare alone law suits, although supremely justified, is not a possibility.  We should really be suing our ancestors for not making sure we were properly educated.  You see, according to The Constitution we are supposed to be controlling our Government, not only through voting, but also through the last part of the First Amendment where it states that We The People have the right to PETITION FOR THE REDRESS OF GREVANCES.  Why weren’t we educated about that?  Why so many of us think that the First Amendment is only about the right of the people to know things and communicate ideas and concepts, when it is clearly far more?  Check out www.GiveMeLiberty.org for information regarding what We The People are doing to force Government to respect the Constitution and force it to Redress our Grievances with regards to several pieces of legislation that are directly opposed to and illegal there of The Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.  We are starting to win in court and we are headed up to the Supreme Court, which is our destination for our cause of Liberty from Government and an attempt to head off otherwise unavoidable Civil and/or Revolutionary War!   For who among us can stand for, or even exist/subsist, with the Government stealing 80 – 90 percent of our earnings, just to pay for Social Security and the SIX TIMES WORSE Medicare Communistic / Socialistic programs, not to mention the standard humongous spending our FAR Above the size that it is supposed to be according to the limits placed on it by our Constitution, Government? These issues are matters of supreme importance to every single American man, women, and child.  These issues pertain and directly relate and have impact on almost every other issue that we can possibly discuss including things such as healthcare and anything the Government spends (but probably shouldn’t be according to the Constitution and the spirit and intent of our founding fathers; for most of these things should be done at the State level so that COMPETITION between States can hinder corruption and stifle the natural tendency of Government to turn Communistic and/or Socialistic and through said COMPETITION, between the States, cause the individual State Governments to provide for the most possible freedom and prosperity for all people, for if the individual State Government starts to turn communistic and starts to steal too much money from the people, through taxation, the people will move away to a state that has more freedom and less taxation and therefore more prosperity and happiness for its citizens.  In this way the very generous, loving and giving nature of the average American citizen as well as our good will establishments and especially our churches and congregations will have the opportunity and benefit of helping those of us who need help as many of us individuals will need from time to time, therefore securing the benefits of helping and loving our fellow countrymen – our brothers and sisters instead of Government stealing even this blessing away from us, our neighbors and our local communities and churches.

 
September 9, 2007 11:58 AM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
Member Since:
August 6, 2007

I forgot to mention something with regards to your question and suggestion SoverignMan:

 I am looking forward to the day that The Matrix is collapsed by our We The People court actions against the U.S. Government.  If we are successful the Matrix will be closed down for very little money that the Government will owe them thanks to a sort of back out clause in The Federal Reserve Act of 1913.  I don't know if it will be possible for us to sue The Matrix because they were only going along with (Illegal) legislation passed by a couple handfuls of Congressmen that were kept over Christmas Eve to sneak it through.  So I don't believe they would be liable even though the whole thing was manipulated by them, these few dominate men, who approached Woodrow Wilson with the offer to tremendously fund his Presidential campaign so that he would win, if he would only agree to help them convince Congress to pass the Constitutionally illegal Federal Reserve Act, which Wilson did and, according to his own words, lived to regret.  President Wilson wrote in a couple of books that he allowed a few dominate men (The Matrix – THE FEDERAL RESERVE) to TOTALLY control the American Government and our entire county.  I have more details on this in other parts of this forum.

 
October 16, 2007 09:51 AM    View printable version     Link to this comment   
Member Since:
February 6, 2007
John Wonderlich said: Unfortunately as a sovereign, the government is very limited in its liability civilly or criminally. Ever hear of anybody suing a court for miscarriage of justice? nope never heard of that but I have seen the courts recently being held accountable for some things by the media, who are unfortunately no friend to the American public. by exposing their bad judgement.. We have to hold them accountable in some way, that was just a suggestion...

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