July 19, 2007

Withholding On The Ropes? U.S. Unable To Prove It's Not Voluntary

The United States appears to have bitten off more than it can chew when it sued Bob Schulz and the We The People organizations earlier this year in an effort to shut down "Operation Stop Withholding."  In the lawsuit, the Government accused WTP of operating an unlawful "abusive tax shelter" in violation of IRC Sections 6700 and 6701, citing the organization's efforts to urge individuals to terminate their W-4 wage and salary withholding agreements. In response to the lawsuit served on Schulz on May 3, 2007, Schulz filed a motion to have the case dismissed on the ground that Operation Stop Withholding is not only fully protected by the First Amendment (including the Petition clause), it is protected because We The People organization is educating People about the withholding laws as they are currently written and which expressly provide that such agreements are voluntary.  The Government's lawsuit has asked the District Court to issue an injunction prohibiting WTP's efforts to educate Americans about the legal termination of private withholding agreements. WTP's efforts rely on "black letter" law which clearly establishes that Withholding Agreements (W-4s) are voluntary and that a worker can -- at any time -- terminate his W-4 by simply notifying the company that he no longer gives his permission to the company to withhold from his pay.  The Government finds itself in a very tough spot. On one hand, it is asking the Court to shut the WTP program down, but on the other hand, neither the IRS nor the attorneys at the Department of Justice have been able to dispute or refute the simple truth that the law itself plainly establishes that withholding is voluntary and permission to withhold can be easily withdrawn by workers at their sole discretion.

 

Link to the full article:

http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2007-07-19.htm

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Hmmmmmmmm.  That could get sticky.  Lots of people would not pay their taxes or pay into SS/MC if it were not withheld in bits and pieces.  But then, look at all the government pays out in refunds over the amount withheld because of EITC and Child Tax Credits.

 

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Yep!  Sure could msbobbie.  The truth is, no law has ever been written for the authorization of taxation of labor wages.

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I actually new this one on the W-4. If you read it - it does state it is voluntary. However, we all no the FR and the IRS are Unconstiutional. As more and more people are becoming aware of this injustice hopefully we can abolish both of them. I know Ron Paul has a bill in the house rate know to do just that . I wrote my worthless senators telling them to support the bill.

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That is why we need the FAIRTAX.  I have never objected to paying taxes,  we need taxes.  As a single person with no dependents, though, for the last 20+ years in the workforce I really felt they are unfair.

 

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msbobbie said:

That is why we need the FAIRTAX.  I have never objected to paying taxes,  we need taxes.  As a single person with no dependents, though, for the last 20+ years in the workforce I really felt they are unfair.

 

 

BIINGO!!!  I wholeheartedly agree.  At this present time however, I am against paying taxes because our Government seems to think they can do as they please with our money.  If they won't do what they are supposed to, don't pay them. A manufacturer won't continue to pay an individual that comes to work and watches TV or sleeps all day would they?  On the other hand however, FAIRTAX is an excellent idea.  It evens out the playing field a bit.  Those of us struggling or simply making a living would be able to cut corners and save more and potentially end up being able to afford some of the finer things in life.  Those that don't have financial worries could continue as they always have but, those nice expensive toys and gourmet food would simply cost a little more.  There are alot of industry benefits as well, however, there are those in industry that see this as a potential threat for some reason.  Why?  I have no clue, someone please educate me.  The only thing that comes to mind is that they would end up paying more taxes out of their pockets because of their tastes in purchases.

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I can't agree more!

With enough people to make an impact, I'd do this tomorrow...

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I've already changed my W-4 to reflect the witholding of 10. I believe that is the max you can claim. 

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mdbonjr :

Your employer is required to withhold federal income (FIT) and FICA taxes from your salary or wages. FICA taxes include payments for Social Security and Medicare.

Employers are no longer required to send the IRS copies of W-4 forms unless the IRS specifically asks for an employee's W4. The W-4's that they would most likely request are for employees who claim more than 10 withholding allowances or Exempt status and are expected to earn more than $200 a week.

Meaning the IRS will tell you to prove you have 10 or more dependents. For example, where I live the Amish has a bare min. of 10 dependents for one family. The IRS then tells you to PROVE it and if you can then you are OK. That includes home visits too.

With you already withholding 10 - the IRS will contact you directly and tell you to prove it, if not than they will force you to change it.

You might want to consider withholding 9 becasue 10 RED FLAGS you to the IRS.

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I hear your words Blaze_of_Fire and I won't deny the validity of your claim.  You are probably absolutely correct.  However, I'm taking a stand as an American with rights.  They will have to prove to me that I'm wrong and if they come after me, I'll be giving the good folks such as Bob Shulz at "We The People" a call for legal guidance.  It's time we stand up to these corrupt tyranist.  I'm doing just that.  Plain and simple.  I appreciate your concern but for now, I'll keep claiming 10.  I'll let you know what happens.

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Im not understanding something here. If you decline for them withholding why would you need to claim 10 or 9?

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I'm not declining from withholding at this point.  I do plan to research that more before persuing that course of action.  For now however, I know I can claim 10, earn interest for myself on the money that would be in my hand, and pay the taxes in the spring.  It's a message I hope many would be willing to send to our corrupt legislation.  Don't get me wrong, I believe taxes are needed.  Without them how would our military survive as well as many other good programs funded by tax income.  However, I'm not willing to continue to support illegals, and a globalist agenda, therefore I'm doing what I know I can at this present time.  Sure, they will get it in the end, my taxes that is, but they won't have it for now.  No more immediate gratification from my blood and sweat.  That's what it amounts to.  Just like we're having to wait for the fence, they will have to wait for my taxes.

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mdbonjr :

I respect you taking that stand as an American. I just wanted you to know that piece of information and leave it to you to decide what to do. It is always good to know all the repercussions of our actions before hand.

What we do for our taxes is claim enough to where we break even or owe just a little tiny bit. That way the crroupt regime we have in charge does not get more than they should in the beginning, which gives them more power.

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