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FairTaxers continue to "flex their muscles"

06/19/2007

Well over a hundred FairTaxers came to Columbia, South Carolina yesterday to let former Senator Fred Thompson know that the FairTax is an extremely important issue facing potential presidential candidates.

 

 

 

 

Amazingly, 140 out of the 300 attendees were FairTax supporters! As a result of this strong showing, the former senator noted several times how he was impressed with the FairTax and also let it be known that the FairTax is an issue he is considering as he prepares for a possible bid for the presidency.

 

 

 

Thanks to all of our hardworking volunteers who made this event a huge success! Now we have to get ready to take our message to Ames, Iowa on August 11th!

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The only tax for this country that would be a fair tax, would be an excise tax on goods.  The same one the founders layed and built the country with .

This is a big mistake, regardless of what you believe or have been told, there is no current law that gives the government the right to tax you on your labor.

That would be unconstitutional.....it doesn't matter if the 16th amendment was ratified , and it wasn't, it woukld still be unconstitutional.

This is a bad trick on the public and it will unleash an irs on your heads like you can't believe.

Vote Ron Paul for office even if you have to do a write in vote.....he will fix this issue.

Please all of you, you must read the rule books for a happy and free America....it can be completely done in about an hour. 

The rule books are written in very plain english....our founders didn't mince words, they meant what they wrote and it is not open for interpretation.  In other words, a 300 page desertation on the meaning of the word "is "won't cut it.

What I mean is, the loyyas would have you believe it is so complicated.....no its not, their codified unconstitutional law is gibberish, done on purpose so you would be at  their mercy to pay them to represent you.

The only law that is legal and has been hidden from all of us according to the Constitution is the Common Law.

So, in order to have a perfect understanding of how the federal government can be controled for the benefit of the people and liberty, as it was intended, start here"

Read the Declaration of Independence.  It reads like out of the newspaers today as to what has happened to us.  This is the reason they had the war.....unfortunately, it may be our turn now. 

Next, read the BIll of Rights........that is your God given rights.....GOD gave it to you, and you may not let a federal government take them away from you. 

Now, read the Constitution.  This is the rules for the federal government.....not you.  You do not have Constitutional rights, all of these rules were put there by the founders for you to know what the federal government can do, and cannot do. 

You can not let them out of the box of rules, or they will take your freedom and property.  The remedies are also in this box of rules.  In other words, it spells out clearly what YOU MUST DO to any one that violates the Constitution, or violates their Oath of office or commits Treason. 

Once the people apply these "REMEDIES", the federal government will slink back into the box, because they know you know how to rein them in.....they love their positions and perks.  Trust me they will make sure its all Constitutional in the future if theses "REMEDIES" are applied.

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In most places write in votes cannot be done and will spoil the ballot.

 

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LONE WOLF SPEAKS THE TRUTH!

God bless you Harry......it is so hard to rescue a man on fire when he ignores the man running after him with the blanket.

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lone wolf,

I agree with everything that you said.  Though the FairTax would be an excise tax on both goods and services.  

The FairTax ain't perfect, but it's unimaginably better than any form of income taxation, especially what we have right now.  The FairTax has a good shot at passage too.  

This would be the largest transfer of power from government to the people that has ever occured since our Independance.  It would be foolhardy for constitutionalists to oppose this.  Even Dr. NO has said he would vote for it.  For Ron Paul to vote YES on anything means it has passed the Constitutional test and is a worthy bill. 

I will be surprised if Council Fred ends up supporting the FairTax.  Rudy is adamantly AGAINST it and Romney is dodging it because he doesn't support it either.   

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How is it better if you can't pay it?  They will still kick your door in and or kill you....better?

Now, they will do all those things, but at least we didn't agree to it in advance.

The fair tax will be just what the IRS ordered.  There is nothing in it that will limit the amount they can tax you, it is a horrendous piece of dung, and major trickery for the public.

The constitution says there shall be no tax on a mans labor.....that is my choice whether Ron Paul wins or not. 

 

Ron Paul, the only hope for a free America! 

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lone wolf said:

How is it better if you can't pay it?  They will still kick your door in and or kill you....better?

 

How is this case?  The tax is only at the final point of resale.  If you can't pay it, than you can't pay it, there is no breaking of the law here.   It's a SALES tax.  

However, if you simply want to save the fruits of your labor, by used goods which are tax free, live off of your land.  You're FREE to do so and nobody with guns will come and bother you because they didn't confiscate enough of the fruits of your labor.  (Well maybe the states will for their share of your property, since we don't have private property rights anymore and rent from the state)  

The IRS is GONE under the FairTax.  The number of tax filers drops 90% from the current 140 million down to about 15-20 million.  The tax code size drops from 70,000 pages to under 500 pages.  The $500 Billion in compliance costs we currently suffer drops significantly.

The FairTax is not perfect, but it's a no-brainer, this is why Ron Paul would vote YES when it comes to the FairTax.

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How do they determine how much that sales tax will be Ron? And youre saying it wont apply to used goods? It was mentioned it does apply to services?

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Bugsygirl,

There is a book put out by Boortz and Linder that describes everything in excruciating but relatively entertaining detail.  The initial plan is to set the rate to be revenue neutral.  It remains to be seen what would happen to the rate.  But without payroll taxes and federal witholding, it would be visible everytime you went shopping if the rate went up or down.  There would be a lot more pressure just because of that to reduce the rate over time.  It would be a lot harder to raise the rate.  If you think the population went wild over the immigration bill, wait until you dig directly into everybody's pocketbook.  That is one of the great advantages of a sales tax.  It doesn't discourage production.  It does encourage thrift and recycling or at least re-using, so it should be good for environmentalists and conservationists.

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FeedFwd, technogeek or not. You post some really pointed and rational comments. And I, for one, appreciate them. Dang, I wish the majority of Americans thought more like you and I do.  Especially like me. Just kidding. But anyway, thanks.

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bugsygirl said: How do they determine how much that sales tax will be Ron? And youre saying it wont apply to used goods? It was mentioned it does apply to services?

 

FeedFwd had it head on.

Revenue neutral rate would mean that 23% of your receipt would go towards the federal government.  This is the tax inclusive rate (which is how income taxes are calculated).  This means that if you buy something for $1.00.  Than 23 cents goes to the federal government and the retail price of the product is 77 cents.

Tax on ALL new goods and services.  I don't think this is ideal personally.  Early in the 19th century some excise taxes were added to various goods to help fund the feds.  These were only on certain items like alcohol, tobacco, sugar, etc.  (I can see the first two but not sure why sugar).  

The FairTax.org argument is that by exempting certain products and industries the windfall goes to those who have much more money to spend (the rich).  Therefore they came up with the PREBATE plan which means the tax goes to ALL new goods and services, and every month EVERY American receives a prebate on poverty level spending (predetermined by family size based on HHS poverty guidelines).  

One can question the HHS guidelines as truly reflecting poverty levels, but this is the plan they came up with and it helps dispel the myth from the far left that sales taxes are regressive on the poor (which is also a disingenuous argument).  

It's not perfect w/respect to liberty, freedom, and the Constitution but it's 99% better than what we have now and has a strong shot at passage.  

This is actually the issue that I consider to be my "red pill".  I kept having to go back to the Constitution to defend the FairTax, and that led me towards limited government in general and small-l libertarianism/classical liberalism that respects the individual, respects the free market, and respects private property rights.  These of which are the holy grail issues.  If we can respect these unalienable rights than we have none of the problems we have today.  

The FairTax is a big step in this direction. 

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It sure would prompt me more to grow a garden....lol I like it.

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Just a thought.  They are also talking about universal health care.  We have friends that live in a country where they have universal health care & education meaning all healthcare and primary and college education is free, and the government taxes 53% of their salarie, BEFORE sales tax (their income tax).  Is this what we are heading for?  Our friends estimate they ultimately pay their government approx. 62%, which means they are working 38% of the time for themselves.  It takes them YEARS to have their own home, if ever, or anything else.  Everything they do has to be pay-as-you-go, or they don't have it.

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ronpaul08.....you are right I am wrong.  I apologize profusely.

I was thinking it was the FLAT TAX.  Yes this would be a great improvement over what we have, although businesses will still have the burden of collecting it and so forth with the irs....they will still have to be around.....cause some businesses may decide to pocket the money.

 

I do wonder though what safe gaurds are in the fair tax to keep them from ramping up, way up, the tax % when ever they need more money. 

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lone wolf -

"I do wonder though what safe gaurds are in the fair tax to keep them from ramping up, way up, the tax % when ever they need more money". 

I was wondering about that myself.  I guess I should study the Fair Tax thing.  I haven't really been concentrating on that right now.

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Speakeng, Who is "they"?  I don't think many Fair Tax fans want anything to do with universal health care or any other government funded goodies.  It is an axiom of economics that if the price is artificially low, then the demand will be artificially high.  If health care is free, then everybody will want more than they would at fair market prices.  Same goes for college or secondary education.  There simply isn't enough health care or education available to satisfy everybody's wants when the price is zero.  So we have shortages, long lines, incompetent providers, overworked providers, or some combination of the above.  It explains in part why universal health care is despised everywhere it exists and why our public education sucks.

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speakengl said:

lone wolf -

"I do wonder though what safe guards are in the fair tax to keep them from ramping up, way up, the tax % when ever they need more money". 

I was wondering about that myself.  I guess I should study the Fair Tax thing.  I haven't really been concentrating on that right now.

 

See my response posted above today at 1:52 pm CDT.  We must do to increasing tax rates what we did to the immigration bill.  It should be easier to get everybody involved, because it hits everybody in the wallet.

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speakengl said:

lone wolf -

"I do wonder though what safe gaurds are in the fair tax to keep them from ramping up, way up, the tax % when ever they need more money". 

I was wondering about that myself.  I guess I should study the Fair Tax thing.  I haven't really been concentrating on that right now.

 

In a practical sense what would prevent the tax rate from ramping up is that EVERYONE would have to pay it and thus have a stake in not wanting to pay more.  Right now a great number of people think the GOVT uses monopoly money or something to buy them things or provide them services. The amount of people truly paying income tax is shrinking. However, the hidden taxes such as Corporate are imbedded in what those not paying income tax buy.  This makes it painless for them.  However, if you give them the full amount of money they have earned it will be amazing how suddenly conservative they will become regarding GOVT spending. 

Remember the Tea Party? 

Member of The New Shadow Government,

SovereignMan

Ah...  OK, well.  Like I mentioned above.  The Fair Tax thing, in and of itself, might be a good thing. 

However, if you couple that with some national health care system or national educational system... or both, our paychecks then become alot smaller, and sales taxes become higher, yes? 

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