I read stuff like this and it makes me ashamed of America

Katrina still killing? The debate rages

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19002895/

Conservatives, where are you? Churches, where are you? Aren't we already a third world country in some ways?

Due to privitization and de-regulation, illegal immigration and tax revolts, for-profit change from not-for-profit, hospital emergency rooms are now the only source of health care for millions, mostly illegals, are subsidized by tax payers or the hospital closes its doors. Is this really what conservatives want? What conservatives are all about? Is this really what the tax revolt was meant to lead to?  We can't NOT treat them because then we open ourselves up to third world diseases.

I'm ashamed that we have a generation of people who have been programmed to believe it's the governments job to take care of them......

mapricenc said:

I'm ashamed that we have a generation of people who have been programmed to believe it's the governments job to take care of them......

 

AAAAAAAAAAMEN!!

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I think it deserves my repeating my characterization of conservatives and liberals – a conservative is simply a liberal who has been mugged at gun point and a liberal is simply a conservative who has recently been indicted.

Restoring America to its Constitutional Republic’s foundation and roots should include, without necessarily being limited to:

Repealing all laws, whether or not enforced, which upon examination of a citizens’ review board are declared in writing to be unconstitutional;

Deregulation of private business (common sense and buyer beware being sufficient regulation) and marketplace oversight pursuant to the capitalistic law of supply and demand;

Stripping so-called law enforcement agencies of their abilities to persecute the nations’ citizens – including grand juries being required to consider the arguments of an accused individual’s counsel, reimbursement (within ten days) of all defendant expenses and costs if acquitted, returning cops to a strict role of peace officer status only, prohibiting interferences with licenses due to nonpayment of governmental fines and child-support payment issues;

A strict enforcement of reimbursement of all court costs and attorney fees taxed against the losing party in litigation (enforceable by imprisonment for up to eighteen months as a matter of contempt of court for failure to reimburse);

State governors dictating how members of congress must vote;

Annual publicly published reports by all governmental representatives (at their personal expense) with respect to the number of days worked, all expenditures related to their office, voting record, and forfeiture of all unused campaign funds to be given to approved charities;

Personal federal taxation limited to a flat sales tax of no more than 10% and the complete elimination of the IRS and all of its codes;

Presidential commander-in-chief authority to order assassination of foreign enemies;

Withdrawal of all American troops from foreign soils wherein no current organized violence against American interests exists;

Extension of a long-arm-of-the-law doctrine to all areas of the world with respect to civil and criminal threats to the security of the USA;

All entitlement programs being reviewed by a general election at the beginning of each decade;

Prohibition against any and all governmental sponsorships and supports of welfare programs;

Marriage defined as a civil contract between one man and one woman;

Taxation of all religious organizations at the same rate as that applied against businesses and corporations and no special governmental accommodations to any faith-based organization whether defined as religious or humanistically secular;

The election of all judges and set terms of service;

Strict prohibition of "legislating from the bench";

Compulsory military service for two years with the only deferment from the same being age related and health related;

Mandatory gun ownership and elimination of all prohibitions against bearing a firearm in any location, along with elimination of security checks upon entry of any facility or transportation carrier;

No denial of or regulation of or expiration of an American citizen’s passport;

The act of performing or having an abortion to be prosecuted as a criminal offense with extenuating circumstances to be considered by the jury;

Elimination of jurors not being instructed about their right and power as judges and the use of nullifications of charges and laws;

Voting rights restricted to single party ballots by which a party is held wholly responsible for the state and/or nation’s governance;

Impeachments by public referendums;

Federal congressional members dictated to by state governors with respect to how they are allowed to vote on any bill;

State and federal only use of land purchased pursuant to due process rights considerations to fair compensation of land seizures for eminent domain uses;

A fee based public educational system (strictly funded by users only with a built-in ability to pay formula);

Deregulation of all academic pursuits and all alternative health services;

No favored nation statuses with respect to taxation of imports;

Taxation of all United Nations activities so long as the UN remains officed in the USA;

All past due fines and governmental fees to be collected by bonded private collection agencies;

All bankruptcy filings accompanied by complete liquidation of assets of the petitioner (including homesteaded exemptions with respect to state taxations); and

Mandatory voting requirement (with a voting by mail and electronic means allowed) of all qualified American voters and a levy of a set fine for failure to vote in any ballot box issue excused only by medical and mental conditions.

I've scratched that last one due to thinking about it more clearly after reading another poster's comments.  He/she is quite astute in pointing out it would only lead to "selling" votes (literally) and we don't need additional corruption of the process.  Sincere thanks for your comments, I stand corrected.

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That's freedom Ken?

YUMA KID   MANDATORY VOTING?   IF A PERSON DOESN'T CARE ENOUGH ABOUT THE ISSUES TO CHOOSE A CANDIDATE AND GO TO THE POLLS TO EXPRESS THAT CHOICE, THEN HE IS A PERSON WHOSE VOTE CAN BE BOUGHT  IF HE IS REQUIRED TO VOTE....SO OF WHAT USE IS HE?

What we are seeing with many people regarding their dependency on govt. to take care of all their needs is the result of more than 40 years of cradle to grave welfare. We have ruined generations of people who may have been productive citizens. How  we wean them off the govt. handouts without a revolt is a question I have no answer to. Many have no idea whatsoever as to how to provide for their own needs. We are stretched to the breaking point  tax wise ,paying for a war, plus a debt we will be paying on for generations.

We simply cannot add millions of more people to our welare rolls.

I strongly disagree with you free market libertarians who are really anarchist capitalists.  Our markets are not free and they need to be fair.  No regulation doesn't get us there.  Despicable people will always take advantage of those who are ignorant - look at the China pet food scandal.  As a consumer, I can't read a label and be informed as to whether the ingredients are from China or not because IT ISN'T REGULATED. 

I'm at a point where I want all people taken off of any kind of assistance in order to prevent the illegals from getting it, but I am not at a point where I'm against cleaning up after a natural disaster and helping folks get back on their feet.  I don't want beggars on every street corner or soup lines like they had back in the depression days.  I also can't even begin to imagine what the crime rate would be like.

mapribenc, if you are in the military, the government takes care of EVERYING for YOU.  If you have a government job, the government takes care of YOU.  If you are a politician, the government takes care of YOU.  If you are a multi-national corporation, the government takes care of YOU.  If you are a large agricultural concern, the government takes care of YOU.

msbobbie, I am aware of the problems public assistance has caused in France and in other European nations and I am aware of the "give me" culture and we are going, have gone too far.  We can't let every person in the world in here and give them a hand out.  I'm not talking about that.  I'm talking about cleaning up after a natural disaster.  Seems like something the government should help with and if not the government, then where the hell are the "community based" services from the free market that are supposed to step in?  I'm ashamed that the richest country in the world doesn't seem to give a darn about how things look to the rest of the world in regards to Katrina.  We help everybody else with foreign aid, why can't we help our own?  Where are the conservatives who are supposed to care about community?  Where are the churches?  Building another million dollar cathedral?  How many Crystal Palaces do we need anyway?

The problems with the aftermath of Katrina firstly began with the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of Louisiana.  Both were incompetent and both should have been held accountable for their inactions in a manner other than facing the next election.

I think the hurricane's destructive powers were compounded by New Orleans' having become an exercise in socialism.  Additionally, individuals had made horrible decisions as to property purchases and property usage which shouldn't be taxed against every citizen of the Republic.  And the migration of New Orleans' welfare generations to Houston, Dallas, and elsewhere have caused major problems with crime increases, more very serious welfare fraud, and more uncontrolled handouts that are ongoing to this day.  The state of Lousiana should be paying the price to clean up the mess it had firstly created and secondly ignored when the warnings and signs were already in place long before Katrina hit.

I lived through Hurricane Carla when it hit Galveston and Houston and the State of Texas to the extent necessary addressed the aftermath without an unbelievable raid upon the national coffers. 

The people of New Orleans who firstly chose to live in "tar-paper shacks" while freely living the good life of living off the government dole and who chose not to move out while an intense storm headed toward them don't have much of my sympathy.  Come on now, "chocolate" city or not it was a diseased utopia and for the federal government to have stepped in and simply spread the disease to other areas is absurd.  The gangs of criminals and thugs and corrupt cops had a field day in the first thirty days following Katrina.

If you build your "house" on sand instead of rock and it doesn't stand up to the "storms" of life then you have no one to blame but yourself.  And it's inexcusable the way far too many people believe that their horrid life choices should somehow be visited upon the rest of society.

States, cities, and municipalities -- like individuals, families and neighborhoods -- should be responsible and then accountable during times of crisis (other than an armed foreign invasion or act of war) without expectation of the rest of the nation running to their rescuse with truck loads of currency.  Private donations and benelvolence programs are to be hailed and thanked but a national handout to morons is ridiculous.

Level New Orleans to the ground and bury the unsightliness of the storm's havoc upon the "residential" areas which shouldn't have been standing in the first place.  Afterwards, leave it that way as a testimony to socialism's failures.  You'll see that the nation will move on anyway without all that much notice of its having gone to the wayside.

Later, down the road, private investment will rebuild New Orleans as it desires and the rebuilding will be better than what the corrupt government of Louisiana had accomplished.  There is no state on the face of our nation's map which has existed as an equal to the corruption of that state.  It is our nation's built-in socialist state and it has failed the test of time; therefore, let it learn from its own history and failed systems and drown in both or tread water until it pulls itself out of the quagmire of its own creation.

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It's interesting that some of the population regards voting as a wonderful privilege while the remainder seem to view it as a burdensome obligation.

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What's the point of voting if your view are never being respected?

When Americans start doing "barn-raisings" again, then we won't need government to help...

I'm not afraid of a free marketplace governing/regulating itself without the help of the federal government.  If not being sure about your food supply becomes a genuine problem, which it very well may be, the market will create test kits and sell them to wary and caring consumers.  There is no problem in the market place that informed consumers, wary buyers, competition, and the law of supply and demand cannot and will not fix.

My grandparents all lived to ripe old ages without the help of the federal or state governments watching over them like they were small children who might be inclined to stick their fingers in light sockets.  Come on, for crying out loud!  It's beyond the time for most Americans to get off the governmental tit from womb to tomb and grow up and fend for themselves! 

Everytime I see someone of the LBJ legacy driving by me in a Lexus on the way to picking up their "government cheese" I become really pushed out of shape.  And the fact is most of them are the very ones screaming for more handouts and reparations.  Gimme a break!

New Orleans for the most part was a disease with a built up immunity to antibiotics.  Plow that ugly sucker under or let nature have and take its course, let the waters cover it in every area where human beings had no business residing.

When morons in California build million dollar houses on the sides of cliffs and the rains come and mudslides take the houses out to the Pacific how is that a matter which calls for me to be further taxed?  I think the morons should have to pay heavy fines for polluting the ocean with their idiotic architectural nightmares which common sense dictated were simply awaiting the day to become problems which didn't have to happen.

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Well said Kenneth.  It is hard to imagine since we have become so inculcated on the good of government.  But drug safety, airline security, and a whole of things would be better if not regulated.  Competition would lead airlines to compete on safety instead of settling for the industry standard.  We wouldn't need the TSA, because airlines would screen their passengers or risk losing business to airlines considered safer.  Drugs would be safer if the reputation and financial wherewithall were dependent on producing safe products rather than meeting a one-shoe fits all testing program defined and verified by government.

People will buy food from vendors/stores they consider safe.  If a restaurant or grocery store poisons people, they will be run out of business.  They certainly won't be motivated to poison their customers.

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marijam said: When Americans start doing "barn-raisings" again, then we won't need government to help...

 

Bingo!  In New Orleans, several coalitions of residents who tried that approach were quickly shut down by the government, who said that planning to rebuild block-by-block constituted the same activities that a developer would do. So the government demanded hundreds of thousands of dollars in planning documents - things like traffic surveys, utility studies, blah blah blah....all for neighborhoods that previously existed.

The people walked away in disgust. 

 

 

mapricenc, if you are in the military, the government takes care of EVERYING for YOU.  If you have a government job, the government takes care of YOU.  If you are a politician, the government takes care of YOU.  If you are a multi-national corporation, the government takes care of YOU.  If you are a large agricultural concern, the government takes care of YOU.

That is an assinine comparison! There's a great deal of difference between someone who has a government job or serves in the military and someone who is just a leech! To think that if one is serving in the military all in their life is "taken care of" shows how little you actually know!!

We help everybody else with foreign aid, why can't we help our own?  Where are the conservatives who are supposed to care about community? 

This I agree with!! I hate to see our tax dollars sent abroad to countries who don't give a damn about us.

Kenneth said, "I think the hurricane's destructive powers were compounded by New Orleans' having become an exercise in socialism."

I don't believe that's a true statement.  Bush repealed the act that would have required workers to be paid "prevailing area" wages and if socialism was involved, where and how?

 Kenneth said, "When morons in California build million dollar houses on the sides of cliffs and the rains come and mudslides take the houses out to the Pacific how is that a matter which calls for me to be further taxed?  I think the morons should have to pay heavy fines for polluting the ocean with their idiotic architectural nightmares which common sense dictated were simply awaiting the day to become problems which didn't have to happen."

 Here, here.  I strongly agree!

Kenneth said, "Everytime I see someone of the LBJ legacy driving by me in a Lexus on the way to picking up their "government cheese" I become really pushed out of shape.  "

I've never seen that.  Have you really, personally seen that?  What were the circumstances?

FeedFwd said, "Competition would lead airlines to compete on safety instead of settling for the industry standard.  "

That's total and complete B.S.  Are you in the industry?  I was, my husband is.  My father was, my uncle was, I grew up in the Air Capital of the World.

FeedFwd said, "People will buy food from vendors/stores they consider safe.  If a restaurant or grocery store poisons people, they will be run out of business.  They certainly won't be motivated to poison their customers."

Are the pet food companies out of business?  How can you run them out of business when "you don't know, what you don't know?"  There are NO regulations for content, only packager, distributor, middleman stuff.  For certain, I will not buy from a grocery store that I consider unsafe but we have reached a point where THERE IS NO WAY TO KNOW UNTIL SOMEONE DIES OR BECOMES ILL.  I can't agree with total deregulation of anything.  Even if the penalty was death, as in China, it would first mean deaths here that could have been prevented.  Grocery stores don't intentionally poison their customers - no, of course not, it just takes one buyer buying the wrong thing from the wrong country.  I was in retail for 9 years and I know how it works:  "buy it as cheap as you possibly can and pile it high".   The only way I would completely trust any food source were if it were Amish or Mennonite or someone I personally knew, or, perhaps, a local farmer's market.  Everything else is suspect.