IF YOU MAKE IT IN CHINA SELL IT IN CHINA

With a 300 Billion Trade Deficit should the United States begin to add a tariff on third world products being imported by retailers? Wal-Mart, Lowe’s, Home Depot and the retail giants in the U.S. are having a profit bonanza importing products made in the third world, and selling them to consumers in the U.S. It’s almost impossible to find a Power Tool, or any other product in the building trades made in the United States, or anything else for that matter.

The trend seems to be, close your factory in the U.S., relocate in a third world country, build a high tech, state of the art factory, employ  .40 cent an hour work force and export back the American, and European market at huge profits. China, India, Malaysia, Indonesia is a never ending supply of cheap well educated labor. How could that possibly be good for American Workers. The Trade Deficit translates into 3 million lost American Jobs. 14.3 Americans working in manufacturing, the lowest since 1950.

Isn’t this trend counterproductive wouldn’t it destroy the very market they want to sell in. Are we just destined to become another third world Country?

I'm new to the posts, but agree wholeheartedly with keeping China's products in China.  Today I read a warning about the recall of a dangerous substance found in toothpastes!!!  The FDA is warning to carefully read the labels and see if if was Made in China.  Today, what ISN'T?!!!   I also wonder why we've had pet food (and human also!) foods tainted by grain/meal imported from China.  Why are we even importing it??????  We have plenty grown here.

 

If tariffs are added onto imported goods from China (do we currently have NO TARIFF on imports from China?) we would simply pay the cost of it as embedded taxes.

The solution to the problem is not to create another tax that the consumer has to pay, the solution to the problem for one is to eliminate the barriers imposed on American producers by government to compete in the United States, and to compete abroad.

For one, we need to eliminate the tax code via the FairTax Act (www.FairTax.org). The United States has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world.  Basic economics tells us that companies do not pay taxes, only we pay taxes.  Corporations do not have a magic tax drawer, they will raise the cost of their product/service to cover the tax costs.  They will pay employers less money to cover the tax costs.  They will cut into the profits to pay tax costs and the shareholders lose, and the American economy loses because a company that has a higher profit margin can reinvest back into the business.  Either way we lose.

Not only do they have the corporate tax, but they have the matching FICA tax as well, and all of the payroll and accounting costs associated with these taxes.  The Income Tax has cost us approximately $500 Billion in compliance alone.

So the first and foremost important thing we can do is to pass the FairTax Act.  Read about this over at www.FairTax.org, there's more posts about it in the tax forum, and sign the petitions. Grassfire.org is a supporter of the FairTax and they have their own petition for it too.

 

 

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    We are making excessive amounts of land fill on our own without having to import it.

                   Working in retail I've seen firsthand the lack of quality from China.  A good American made flashlight used to go through several sets of batteries before it needed to be replaced. Now one set of batteries goes through several Chinese made flashlights. What a shame. Cusomers buy these cheaply made products and wind up having to bring it back a few days to weeks later.   Work in Sporting Goods; had a recall last year on Zebco fishing rods made for kids because they were painted with a lead based paint. Enough is enough with this Communist cesspools bleeding Americans dry.

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Jason,

Yes they are cheap pieces of crap, but the consumer has the utmost responsibility, and the right, to choose if they want to spend a few cents less for a piece of crap or to buy something that's quality made no matter where it is from.  If government would remove itself from our market than our products quality would increase and price would decrease.  A protectionist tariff just keeps American products the same and makes the consumer pay more for the piece of junk Chinese product.

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RonPaul08, didn't the framers of our Constitution incourage a prtective teriff to pay for Government. I don't believe taxing labor was their intent. A protective teriff would pay for Government, and retire the national debt. I totall disagree that consumers have a choice, unless it is bad or badder. A teriff would give American workers some recovery from the beating they are taking, because of the race to the bottom.

                         I see very little choice. Cheap cheaply made Chinese goods or more expensive cheaply made Chinese goods. I myself would prefer paying more for quality, which is why I seldom shop at my own Globalistic leviathan employer. The choices still left are getting fewer and further between.   Used to work in textile for 10 years till we were stabbed in the back for slave wage labor. Again less choice.

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How is Government interfearing with the quality of our products. How would prices decrease, these products on our store shelves are all made in some thind world country for .40/hr wages. Dinasour is right our landfills are full of Chinese made junk, I diligently look for U.S. made products and can not find them.

Jason,

I'm with you.  I would prefer to buy quality myself, and I would prefer to buy American, and I also prefer to buy inexpensive.  I usually try to weigh all three of these factors into the equation when making most purchases.  Frankly if I'm going to buy a something like a flashlight that's less than $5, I really don't care where it's from, because I know that things like these aren't made in the U.S. anymore.  Though the last pair of running shoes I bought, I bought some New Balance ones that were actually the 2nd cheapest between some of the others I was looking at, and these particular NB's were made in the U.S.  Not all NB shoes are made in the US anymore either.  I also buy American vehicles, but they end up being cheaper in cost than imports.  

Algebra,

If I want to buy something from Walmart, a private company, who contracts with a company in another nation, I have every right to choose to buy that product.  

The Founding Fathers never advocated high tariffs.  I don't mind tariffs across the board on everything that are VERY LOW to fund Constitutional federal government, but most free market capitalist economists do not believe that tariffs should be raised to very high levels to protect American industries.

Let's face, there are plenty of businesses in the United States that are very horrible, and the market would dictate that they should go under, but for government intervention.  They do this currently with all of the subsidies that go to businesses, large and small.  Protectionist tariffs would do the same thing.  

Go back and read my first post, I can't be any clearer on how the government raises the costs of American goods here, and overseas (thereby killing exports and precipitating the trade deficit).  Government, as always, comes back to being the problem. 

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                   We are on life support as a nation. We cannot hope to long exist as a service job oriented economy. We are hemmorhaging jobs left and right. These private companies are the ones bleeding us out, for the puposes of pure unadulterated greed. Even aiding and abetting the sell out of our sovereignty (NAU/NAFTA/TTC/etc.....................) This can be found very clearly in the North American Competiveness Council ( which would leave us drained of all manufacturing jobs ( the life blood of any would be super power.)  We need intervention to rein in (private) companies that don't have our best interest at heart.

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We do NOT need more government intervention to solve problems.  GOVERNMENT is the problem, what we need to do is FREE UP THE MARKET as I've been saying.

This can be accomplished, with the biggest power transfer from the federal government to the people that has ever happened, by passing the FairTax Act!  Of course also by electing free market capitalists like Ron Paul into the White House.

www.FairTax.org

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I think those free market capitalists is the problem. 300 billion trade deficit, manufacturing in ruins, we are at the point we can't sustain our own society without imports. I don't believe you are in tune with Ron Pauls concept of Free Markets. Fair Trade is the goal not Free Trade.

                   We are on life support as a nation. We cannot hope to long exist as a service job oriented economy. We are hemmorhaging jobs left and right. These private companies are the ones bleeding us out, for the puposes of pure unadulterated greed. Even aiding and abetting the sell out of our sovereignty (NAU/NAFTA/TTC/etc.....................) This can be found very clearly in the North American Competiveness Council ( which would leave us drained of all manufacturing jobs ( the life blood of any would be super power.)  We need intervention to rein in (private) companies that don't have our best interest at heart.

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algebra said: I think those free market capitalists is the problem. 300 billion trade deficit, manufacturing in ruins, we are at the point we can't sustain our own society without imports. I don't believe you are in tune with Ron Pauls concept of Free Markets. Fair Trade is the goal not Free Trade.

 

This post is now getting circular, anybody else care to chime in?  

Fair Trade equates to government managed trade with poor nations.  Free markets is basically that, FREE from government interference. 

Again, if I want to buy something from Walmart, a private company, who contracts with a company in another nation, I have every right to choose to buy that product. 

And for the umpteenth time, the FairTax is the answer.  What are you guys responding to if it's not the points I'm making?!  

If you're not familiar with the FairTax, than go read up about it rather than re-post the same thing with addressing anything I've said. 

www.FairTax.org

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I'll read about the Fair Tax if you will answer this question, how can American workers compete with .40/hr wages of the third world. Has Wal-Mart monopolized the retail market in a large part of the country. We have no choice but to buy there, the local merchants have all been run out of business.

algebra said: I'll read about the Fair Tax if you will answer this question, how can American workers compete with .40/hr wages of the third world. Has Wal-Mart monopolized the retail market in a large part of the country. We have no choice but to buy there, the local merchants have all been run out of business.

 

1.) You should read about the FairTax because it's going to save this country when it's finally enacted.

 

The FairTax also answers your question as I have said earlier.  The United States has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world.  Basic economics tells us that companies do not pay taxes, only we pay taxes.  Corporations do not have a magic tax drawer, they will raise the cost of their product/service to cover the tax costs.  They will pay employers less money to cover the tax costs.  They will cut into the profits to pay tax costs and the shareholders lose, and the American economy loses because a company that has a higher profit margin can reinvest back into the business.

When you simply eliminate these taxes, and the $500 Billion in compliance costs, prices can be reduced.  Our exports will not have all of these embedded tax costs in them and will be able to compete globally.

You will have to ask yourself, what costs a business more.  Having to pay their employees competitive wages or having 35% of your profits go to the federal government, in addition to 7x that amount going in complying with those taxes.  

Again, this is all discussed at www.FairTax.org if you choose to read the research.

This is also a first step, all of the regulations placed on business by government needs to be repealed too.  

We also need to return to a sound monetary policy that does not devalue our wealth after the bankers get theirs before the trickle down effect of inflation occurs. 

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A few other things to think about:

1. The Chinese government (among others) financially backs some of their companies to run ours out of business.

2. Most of the “labor” performed in manufacturing here is done with machines. So even if slave labor is employed how can a rickshaw keep up with a car?

3. Buying things from China will eventually get us the same thing buying Middle East oil has. Pay now or pay later, but we’re going to pay!

I worked as a CNC machinist at Auburn Gear in Auburn Indiana who was feverishly trying to outsource my job to China. There, they were using pre-World War II machines which could not possibly keep up with a modern CNC machine - even if the labor was FREE (like the rickshaw vs. car). Then the cost of shipping the parts and then sorting those parts (30% was expected to be scrap from China while our scrap rate was usually around .0005%) could not have been able to compete without some kind of subsidies from the Chinese government, which, of course, was not talked about by the company, but it was implied by some in management.

It may also be helpful to know; my boss, who’d worked there for over 40 years said that the CNC machine I was running eliminated 3 to 4 jobs. These jobs were paying the same as General Motors at the time! Which means the current cost to the company to make this particular part would be about 1/6^th what it was from the 60’s through the 80’s adjusted for inflation. And their goal was to cut that in half by outsourcing to China.

Until Chinese manufacturers have to comply with the same EPA, OSSIA, Workman’s Comp, Unemployment Insurance, etc. that our companies do they’re going to kill us. Our companies our bogged down with regulation for sure, but we can’t start polluting and forgo all these regulations the way China does to be able to compete with them. Tariffs must be high enough to encourage American made purchases.

 

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ConstitutionPartyNow said:

Until Chinese manufacturers have to comply with the same EPA, OSSIA, Workman’s Comp, Unemployment Insurance, etc. that our companies do they’re going to kill us. Our companies our bogged down with regulation for sure, but we can’t start polluting and forgo all these regulations the way China does to be able to compete with them. Tariffs must be high enough to encourage American made purchases.

 

CPN,

This is why you do the Constitutional and REPEAL these laws and regulations that interfere with the free market!

You start by eliminating the most communist part of our government being the Income Tax! AGAIN, www.FairTax.org is the answer and it's going to happen soon, more of you people just need to sign the petition, and tell your Congressman, Senators, State Reps, etc. that you want this NOW!

The answer is NOT more big government intervention with high tariffs. As I said, if we were to offset revenues raised through lowering the FairTax rate, than sure implement an across the board and flat tariff on all imports. DO NOT USE THIS AS A TOOL FOR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO SUBSIDIZE AMERICAN INDUSTRIES, THEY DO THIS ENOUGH ALREADY!

Otherwise good points in your post! 

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RonPaul08, I read the issues the Fair Tax addresses. It gives no explination of how American Workers compete with .40/hr wages. Common sense dictates that if you removed every tax, every regulation on American Industry the third world would still make it cheaper, 14.5 million workers work in manufacturing, if you doubled that number it would only be 29 million. China has a billion, India has a billion, Indonesia, has nearly a billion, Malaysia has nearly a billion. The folks in those countries working for .40/hr. are not consuming the products they are making for export to the American and European Markets. They are only being used as cheap labor, while the Multi-National Corperations are pocketing the huge,huge profits. 10 years ago P.B.S was constantly making documentries on the starving population of China. Now they are exporting food to us. Shouldn't the Chinese be sure their own population is fed before they export food to the U.S. that is the insensitivity of free trade. 60% of the G.N.P. goes into the bank accounts of 2% of the population, that seems to be the result of Free unregulated Trade. I don't know, so please don't be offended when I ask, do you believe we should have Nation States with controlled borders, should Sovereign Nations give way to a free unrestricted flow of capital and goods.