Speak out people!

The loudest voices get heard!If we are told to be quiet,speak louder!There ways to accompolish our objective of the constitutional republic our fore fathers envisioned.Please from highest mountain and the lowest valley shout it out loud, the message of our rights, freedoms and liberties.While organizations like this one is a good start,it is however for those of us who are in the know so to speak.So we can't keep it to our self!

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Jimmied is right on! We must speak up in the newspapers, on talk shows, every opportunity we get.  But we must be well informed before we can make a convincing case.  Let us not be reduced to name calling.  Let us clearly and succinctly express the truth whenever we have the opportunity to do so.

When news paper reporters,T.V. reporters and other media types spout off info,make back it with fact like we do here.Opinion is fine but don't report opinion as fact!When they quote statistics,make them produce the source!!!I'm sick and tired of these liberal talking heads spewing trash as fact.If you are an american and believe our constitution is the document that binds our country, then back it up with action!Politicians work for us and they need to be reminded time and time again.As they have very short memories...

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Well, it's official.  The Democrats/Liberals have made a declaration of war.  They are mounting their troops as we speak.  I have no idea what pastors and congregations will do to counter...  !  No joke, that is how bad it has gotten lately.  The American Center for Law and Justice is going forward with the legal side based on the unconstitutionality of it all.  They will win I believe, until the ACLU files an appeal with some liberal judge like they do.

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Thanks to Dubya, religious organizations can get hand outs from the Federal government.  So much for the separation of Church and State.

Religion is just another tool that has been used for centuries to control the way people think.  Unfortunately it is also used to organize people as well.

I applaud people that can think for themselves without the handicap of religion. 

 

AJ,separation of church and state means that "the goverment shall not establish a state religion"(denomination)!Also separation of church and state was mentioned in a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote,not in the constitution.

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AJ said: Religion is just another tool that has been used for centuries to control the way people think.  Unfortunately it is also used to organize people as well. I applaud people that can think for themselves without the handicap of religion.   

That is the value of the freedom of choice in religion.  If there is only one allowed religion, then it naturally to be manipulative and controling so as to maintain it's position.  However, particularly in terms of spiritual things, since Martin Luther challenged the Catholic Church after the dark ages, people tend to look for a church that supports what they choose to believe and resist adapting to a church's beliefs.

Organized religion is part of human nature because people seek to gather with like-minded people and rally/validate with each other.  We seek to set definable order and structure to what we don't understand so that we know what is expected of us.  We seek to understand fundamental questions of "why" to bring a purpose to our lives - hopefully a purpose greater than ourselves.

I do not see it as a handicap at all, but something that sets us apart from other creatures - not just the mind to explore spiritual and abstract issues that are addressed in religion, but also the enpowerment that comes from uniting in a combined belief/purpose. 

I believe that we all should be true to what we believe inside - whether that means sticking with the church of your youth, exploring other churches or living outside all organized religion.  Throughout our lives, this core of beliefs may change and merit changing to a different avenue.  That is very human and I believe is the right of learning and growing as individuals in our pursuit of happiness.  I think that because of the variety of religions out there, most people do exactly that.  A lot of time it is the seeing of someone doing something else or believing in something else that gets us thinking about what we really believe - like Luther did for many - and give them the strength to change.

As I have said, because of the options out there and so many different opinions of "Truth", I believe that people (in the US) are less likely than ever to be manipulated long by a religious organization than they have in the past.  It's far to easy to walk away and start a new church altogether.  Thus I doubt that the Government excersices very much power in controling people through organized religion.

However, this is my personal opinion and I have never claimed to be an expert in anything.

 

Exercise your freedom and liberties!It's like a muscle if you don't use it,it gets weak and useless!From voting,faith,speech,bearing arms etc. we must remember to exercise!!

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AJ said: Thanks to Dubya, religious organizations can get hand outs from the Federal government.  So much for the separation of Church and State.

Separation of Church and State is a myth. If you read your copy of the Constitution, there is nothing to support this false idea.

If you would like to talk about hand outs lets talk about welfare, our tax money supports tens of thousands of people who are able to work, but would rather we support them. I do know some people are not able to work and have no other option. To those people, we should help them. But anyone who able bodied should carry there own wieght. Myself I would rather invest my money, than let our Government do that for me.

 

Assuming that the founders of this nation knew what they were doing, let's take a look at what they thought about religion in government and the "separation of church and state". My sister who's a history buff took the book "Original Intent" by David Barton, and other sources, and cumulated some of the writings of the founding fathers where they specifically dealt with religion and Christianity. Here they are:

Although this is lengthy, print this up and keep it on hand to use when a revisionist tries to deceive and rob you of your CHRISTIAN American heritage.

In their own words...

Christianity

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

-- Thomas Jefferson

"[T]he rising greatness of our country...is greatly tarnished by the general prevalence of deism which, with me, is but another name for vice and depravity...I hear it is said by the deists that I am one of their number; and indeed that some good people think I am no Christian. This thought gives me much more pain than the appellation of Tory [being called a traitor], because I think religion of infinitely higher importance than politics...[B]eing a Christian...is a character which I prize far above all this world has or can boast."

-- Patrick Henry

"The attempt by the rulers of a nation [France] to destroy all religious opinion and to pervert a whole people to atheism is a phenomenon of profligacy [act of moral depravity]...[T]o establish atheism on the ruins of Christianity [is] to deprive mankind of its best consolations and most animating hopes and to make a gloomy desert of the universe."

-- Alexander Hamilton

"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were...the general principles of Christianity...I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."

-- John Adams

"[T]he religion I have [is] to love and fear God, believe in Jesus Christ, do all the good to my neighbor, and myself that I can, do as little harm as I can help, and trust God's mercy for the rest."

-- Daniel Boone

"[American Christianity is] Christianity to which the sword and fagot are unknown -- general tolerant Christianity is the law of the land!"

-- Daniel Webster

"Why is it that, next to the birth-day of the Saviour of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day (Independence Day)? Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birth-day of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birth-day of the Saviour? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the gospel of dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity?

-- John Quincy Adams (July 4^th, 1837)

"Let us enter on this important business under the idea that we are Christians on whom the eyes of the world are now turned...Let us in the first place...humbly and penitently implore the aid of the Almighty God whom we profess to serve - let us earnestly call and beseech Him for Christ's sake to preside in our councils."

-- Elias Boudinot, president of the Continental Congress

"I believe that there is only one living and true God, existing in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, the same in substance equal in power and glory. That the scriptures of the old and new testaments are a revelation from God and a complete rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy Him...I believe that the souls of believers are at their death made perfectly holy and immediately taken to glory: that at the end of this world there will be a resurrection of the dead and a final judgment of all mankind when the righteous shall be publicly acquitted by Christ the Judge and admitted to everlasting life and glory, and the wicked be sentenced to everlasting punishment."

-- Roger Sherman, signer of the Constitution

"I shall now conclude my discourse by preaching this Saviour to all who hear me, and entreating you in the most earnest manner to believe in Jesus Christ, for ‘there is no salvation in any other'...[I]f you are not reconciled to God through Jesus Christ, if you are not clothed with the spotless robe of His righteousness, you must forever perish."

-- John Witherspoon, signer of the Declaration of Independence

"[D]on't forget to be a Christian. I have said much to you on this head and I hope an indelible impression is made."

-- Jacob Broom, signer of the Constitution

"My only hope of salvation is in the infinite transcendent love of God manifested to the world by the death of His Son upon the cross. Nothing but His blood will wash away my sins. I rely exclusively upon it. Come, Lord Jesus! Come Quickly!"

-- Benjamin Rush, signer of the Declaration of Independence

"On the mercy of my Redeemer I rely for salvation and on His merits; not on the works I have done in obedience to His precepts."

-- Charles Carroll, signer of the Declaration of Independence

"I desire to bless and praise the name of God most high for appointing me my birth in a land of Gospel Light where the glorious tidings of a Saviour and of pardon and salvation through Him have been continually sounding in my ears."

-- Robert Treat Paine, signer of the Declaration of Independence

"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty - as well as the privilege and interest - of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

-- John Jay, First Chief Justice of the Supreme Court

God and Religion

"As nations cannot be rewarded or punished in the next world, so they must be in this. By the inevitable chain of causes and effects, Providence punishes national sins by national calamities."

-- George Mason, signer of the Constitution and Father of the Bill of Rights

"Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is Divine...Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters. Indeed, these two sciences run into each other. The Divine law...forms an essential part of both."

--James Wilson, signer of the Constitution and an original justice of the US Supreme Court.

"If a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We've been assured in the sacred writing that, ‘Except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it.'"

-- Benjamin Franklin, Constitutional Convention, June 28, 1787

"And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis - a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever."

-- Thomas Jefferson

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

-- John Adams

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens...Let it simply be asked, where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are instruments of investigation in courts and justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education...reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in the exclusion of religious principle."

-- George Washington

Christianity incorporated into national law

"Had the people [the founding fathers], during the Revolution, a suspicion of any attempt to war against Christianity, that revolution would have been strangled in its cradle...At the time of the adoption of the Constitution and its amendments, the universal sentiment was that Christianity should be encouraged, but not any one sect [denomination]. In this age, there is no substitute for Christianity...That was the religion of the founders of the republic and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendents."

-- House Judiciary Committee report, March 27, 1854 ruling on a petition to exclude ministers from Congress, the military, etc.

"The great vital and conservative element in our system [the thing that holds our system together] is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and the divine truths of the Gospel of Jesus Christ."

-- House Judiciary Committee report, expounding on the above matter a few months after its first ruling.

"Every person appointed to public office shall say ‘I do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration."

--Delaware Constitution, 1776

"No purpose of action against religion can be imputed to any legislation, state or national, because this is a religious people...This is a Christian nation."

-- Ruling by the US Supreme court* in the case of Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States (1892)

*citing 87 precedents - including direct quotes from the Founding Fathers - to support the assertion that the US is a Christian nation.

"Why may not the Bible, and especially the New Testament...be read and taught as a divine revelation in the [school] - its general precepts expounded...and its glorious principles of mortality inculcated?...Where can the purest principles of morality be learned so clearly or so perfectly as from the New Testament?"

-- taken from the US Supreme court* ruling in the case of Vidal v. Girard (1844)

*many of this court's justices were appointed by James Madison

"Whatever strikes at the root of Christianity tends manifestly to the dissolution of civil government."

-- taken from court ruling, upheld by the US Supreme Court* in the case of People v. Ruggles (1811)

*this case involved a man defaming Jesus Christ, and it was ruled (and upheld on appeal) that because this is a Christian nation, an attack on Jesus or Christianity was an attack on the nation. The man was given 3 months in jail and $500 fine.

"By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed on the same equal footing."

-- Case of Runkel v. Wine miller (1799)*

*ruling as to the intent of the First Amendment's instructing congress to "make no law respecting an establishment of religion"-- merely to keep one Christian denomination being set up over another.

The Founders: More than politicians

John Quincy Adams -- Vice-President of the American Bible Society, member of the Massachusetts Bible Society.

Abraham Baldwin (Signer of the Constitution) -- Chaplain in the American Revolution for 2 years.

Joel Barlow (Diplomat under Washington and Adams) -- Chaplain in the American Revolution for 3 years.

Elias Boudinot (President of the Continental Congress) -- Founder and first President of the American Bible Society, President of the New Jersey Bible Society, member of the American Board of Commissioners for Foreign Missions, member of the Massachusetts Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge.

John Brooks (Revolutionary General and Governor of Massachusetts) -- President of Middlesex County Bible Society.

James Brown (US Senator and Diplomat) -- Original officer of the American Bible Society.

Dewitt Clinton (Governor of New York and introduced the 12th Amendment) -- Manager and Vice President of the American Bible Society.

Francis Dana (Member of the Continental Congress, US Minister to Russia) -- Member of the Society for Propagating the Gospel Among the Indians and Others.

John Davenport (Revolutionary Officer, US Congressman) -- Member of the Missionary Society of Connecticut.

Samuel Dexter (Sec. of War under Adams, Congressman and Senator) -- Society for Propagating the Gospel Among the Indians and Others.

Felix Grundy (US Attorney General, Congressman and Senator) -- Original officer of the American Bible Society.

Alexander Hamilton (Signer of the Constitution) -- Proposed formation of the Christian Constitutional Society to spread Christian government to other nations.

John Jay (First US Supreme Court Justice) -- President of the American Bible Society, member of the American Board of Commissioners for Foreign Missions.

Francis Scott Key (Attorney and author of our National Anthem) -- Officer and manager of the American Sunday School Union.

Rufus King (Signer of the Constitution) -- Selected manager of the American Bible Society.

Marquis De Lafayette (Revolutionary General) -- Member of the American Sunday School Union.

John Langdon (Signer of the Constitution) -- Vice-President of the American Bible Society.

Benjamin Lincoln (Revolutionary General, Lt. Gov. of Massachusetts) -- Member of the Society for the Propagating of the Gospel among the Indians and Others.

John Lowell (Revolutionary Officer, member of the Continental Congress) -- Member of the Society for the Propagating of the Gospel among the Indians and Others.

John Marshall (Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, Sec. of State, Revolutionary General) -- Vice-President of the American Bible Society, officer in the American Sunday School Union.

James McHenry (Signer of the Constitution) -- President of the Baltimore Bible Society.

Joseph Nourse (Revolutionary Officer, US Treasury) -- Original Officer of the American Bible Society.

Robert Treat Paine (Signer of the Declaration of Independence) -- Military Chaplain.

Charles Cotesworth Pinckney (Signer of the Constitution) -- President of the Charleston Bible Society, Vice-President of the American Bible Society.

Thomas Posey (Revolutionary Officer, Gov. of Indiana) -- Original officer of the American Bible Society.

Rufus Putman (Revolutionary General, Federal Judge) -- President of the Ohio Bible Society.

Caleb Strong (Constitutional Convention, Senator) -- Vice-President of the American Bible Society.

William Tilghman (Federal Judge) -- Original Officer of the American Bible Society.

Smith Thompson (US Supreme Court, Sec. of Navy) -- Vice-President of the American Bible Society.

There are more......too numerous to mention.

What inspired our Constitution?

THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT -- Isaiah 33:22

SEPARATION OF POWERS -- Jeremiah 17:9

TAX EXEMPTIONS FOR CHURCHES -- Ezra 7:24

...just to name a few.

The First Amendment to the Constitution:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise there of; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people to peaceably assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Here we see this first amendment addresses Congress, and limits only Congress. It does not address a person, group of people, a church, or anything but Congress.

Origin of the "Separation of Church and State" remark

This wording is not found in our First Amendment, or anywhere in the US Constitution.

In a letter to President Thomas Jefferson dated Nov. 7, 1801, the Danbury Baptists of Connecticut wrote that they were concerned that "free exercise of religion" appeared in the First Amendment. To them, this implied the government had the power to regulate religious expression and suggested that the freedom of religion was a government granted, rather than a God-granted right. They believed that freedom of religion was a God-granted, inalienable right, and that the government should be powerless to restrict religious activities unless those activities cause someone to "work ill against his neighbor".

Jefferson understood their concern. In his response on Jan 1, 1802, he assured them that the free exercise of religion was, indeed, an unalienable right, and would not be meddled with by the government. Jefferson pointed out that there was a "wall of separation between church and state" to insure that the government would never interfere with religious activities.

In a letter to Benjamin Rush on Sept. 23, 1800, Thomas Jefferson made clear his interpretation of the First Amendment as being a simple prevention against the Federal establishment of a single Christian denomination. In that letter, President Jefferson committed himself to not allow any denomination to achieve the "establishment of a particular form of Christianity".

Clearly this letter has been taken out of context and has been used as a means to an end for which it was not intended.

For more information, read "Original Intent" by David Barton or visit www.wallbuilders.com

 

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Let me just say, as my first post,

AMEN!!

Bob

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I agree particularly with the statement that no government can maintain order among people that have neither morals or religion.  They feel no sense of right and wrong and that any line is decided by man - so why do I not have as much right as the next man to decide right and wrong?  If you feel no sense of responsibility to a higher authority that is onipotent and all knowing, then the only thing that might stop them is the fear of penalties IF they are caught.  If that is the only thing that makes them hesitate, can you imagine the stiffness of penalties and the number of laws it would take?  We cannot imagine up the crimes that such a man is capable of, alone create enough laws to guard against it all, or prevent loopholes?  Besides, just as a child that is continually beaten or yelled at becomes desenitized - the penalties would have to get steeper every day until there is literally nothing in this life that you can do that they will fear.  Religion HAS to be there - I prefer Christianity, but even just any belief in accountability to a higher power that is fundamentally moral helps.

Lone Skeptic...

I agree that the government could have trouble maintaining order among people with no morals.  They have that trouble daily.  What I don't understand is why you include people with 'no religion' or 'agnostics' or 'atheists' in that same category.  I am both an atheist and a good moral person.  I actually follow the teachings of Jesus Christ even more than many Christians - I simply don't believe Jesus was God or that there is a God.  There are many of us non-believers who pretty much stay in the 'closet' because we know how we would be persecuted by people like you.   I don't think religion does 'have' to be there.  In fact, as long as there are radicals and fundamentalists in Islam, Christianity and any other religion, there will never be peace on this planet.  This country was built on Christianity, it's true, but more than that, it was and is supposed to be a place where there is freedom.  Everyone should be able to state their beliefs without fear.  I may not believe what you believe, but I have no problem with what you believe as far a God is concerned.  God can never be 'proven' or 'disproven'.  But I do take offense when you call me 'immoral'.

In America you do (should have) the right to freely be christian ,athiest or what ever as long as you obey the laws. But I do believe that to deny God's deity and supreme being is to deny the very foundation of our freedom, and your freedom to be whatever you choose. To undermine or deny the Supreme who guided the very souls and passions of the founding fathers and the  unallienable rights they incorporated into that wonderfull document the constitution is to deny/undermine the rights that give you the freedom to make your choice. God made man and woman in His own image, thankfully without his supreme knowledge and power because we can't handle what he did give us. If it were not for His will and blessing, these United States of America would not be here today. That the powers that be (or were) have honored him with our greatest treasures, our money's (in God we trust) and in the pledge to our great Republic should be enough proof to anyone what values we as a nation should  uphold and embrace. To deny Him and not know Him is an eternal tragedy, but by HIS will we all can make the choice. As a christian and patriot, I respect anyone who is a decent, law-abiding citizen. I may not agree with your conviction or lack of, but consider you my friend and countryman untill you start to subvert my faith or our beloved constitution. I will always pray for your redemption but will pray for your destruction as well if you work against our GOD given rights. God bless.

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HIS will be done.

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Brother Liberty Tim, very well put; AMEN.

Barbaraoc1 -

I agree with everything you've said except for one. Gods existence CAN be proven. It's called love. That is what God is, and if you remove Him you'll also remove love, because "all love comes from God". When ever you've loved somebody (unconditionally), that is literally God loving that person through you, or sharing His love for that person with you. And any true, unconditional love that you have seen in the eyes of your mother, or father or anybody, is God sharing His love for you with that person.

Just as intangible as love, so is God.

If you truly would like to know whether He exists or not, then I'd suggest that the next time you're alone in your room, or where ever, simply fold your hands, close your eyes - simply ask something like this; "God do you exist? I don't believe you do, but if you do I want to know. Thank you for hearing this prayer...if you exist". Amen.

I think soon after you've prayed a prayer like that, He'll reveal Himself to you, and it will be a revelation in your heart. You will know in your heart. The message will be this: "meet my Son, Jesus Christ".

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Barbaraoc1 - It was not my intention to offend.  I was speaking mostly from my own observations.  I didn't intend to imply that everyone who doesn't have religion is immoral.  I was merely pointing out that religion is a good way to teach people to be moral.  You must have had good parents that taught you to be a good responsible citizen.  My concern is that as I watch more and more of the rising generation I see that they are growing up without morals.  The problem is that morals have been replaced by "political correctness" and many of the young people of the country are growing up without respect for anything.  In the past, young people were encouraged to be good by a belief in God that led them to care about others feelings and as adults uphold freedom.  I don't think that freedom means doing whatever you want no matter how it hurts other people.  Unfortuantely, that is the attitude that I am seeing in the rising generation.   So no, I'm not trying to condemn anyone who isn't part of a religion, I'm just saying that without religion, the great majority of people that I have seen don't have enough self control to be self governing and maintain freedom.

Times are changing in Europe, Canada, and America. Proclaiming the truth of Scripture is becoming more difficult and culturally unacceptable. Most recently are concerns in Europe that new Sexual Orientation Regulations will discriminate against Christians as they have in Canada, “Christians have voiced their alarm at what affect their coming into being will have on their freedom to live according to their faith”, especially as hate laws are being stretched to include unpopular (subjectively considered hateful) speech (Mackay).

Case in point, 2/1/2007: a British Columbia City Council member is being forced to pay fines and make public apologies for saying “that homosexual acts were ‘not normal and not natural’” (Thomas), and 1/30/2007: Catholic adoption agencies in the U.K. will be forced to adopt to same-sex couples or shut down (Mackay).

It should be obvious that there is increasing hostility toward teachings of the Gospel. How will we react?


Devotion

It can be easy to let culture box in our faith. We can all to easily stay silent when speaking out becomes uncomfortable or even criminal. But remember Paul who said, “I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.” (Romans 1:16)

Again we can learn from the early Church leaders and the Apostles. “Stephen ‘speaks to us above all of Christ, of Christ crucified and risen as the centre of history and of our life’” (Gold).

There is a point of tension we must remain in to work within and engage the culture, but we must also hold true to the Gospel and teachings of Scripture. Do not be ashamed of the Gospel and do not conform to the culture (Romans 12:2).


Prayer

Let us commit to at least a week of praying that all members of the body of Christ will have the courage to boldly proclaim the Gospel in all circumstances.

Heavenly Father, may the Cross ever be before me. Fill my heart and my thoughts with Christ so that every word may come from my love of Him. I pray that you would give every one of your children hope and courage that we may be ready to speak of you above all else no matter what circumstance we find ourselves in. The world needs your hope of Salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ as much as it ever has. It is in His name that I pray – Amen.


If you would like to have these prayer devotions emailed to you then join the Prayer Team!

Full essay Here.

Romans 15:4 Project

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To Constitution Party Now - thank you so much for spending time to do that.  I am printing it out and will use that in the future!  That gives us all a shot in the arm!

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So us non-Judeo-Christians don't get to participate in being Americans too??

 That doesn't sound very, uhm, American.